Why I think sports are beneficial to society

[Polite24]

Often, I feel like I have to make the same argument over and over again, because you guys bring the same things up over and over. So here's why I think sports do far more good than harm.

I'll start with admitting some bad things they can cause. At the school level, they can cause the star athletes to get big headed, and sometimes pick on other people. I will also state that the professional athletes make a bit too much money. Also, I concede that they can cause non athletic kids to lose confidence, and they may get picked on or made fun of because of the fact they suck at sports.

However, kids feeling worthless in high school seems to be your guys biggest gripe with sports, or least one of them. Truth be told, sports are hardly the biggest reason for kids feeling worthless in high school. In reality, it starts and ends with cliques. Popular kids, nerds, whatever label you want to put on a clique really. And whether you're in that group or not is almost always decided upon how you look, not sports. While sports do play somewhat of a role, they are hardly the reason kids get picked on in the way that will make their lives miserable. Besides Fat Man's story, you guys saying PE made your lives miserable for that short time you had is likely just a product of you guys being insecure in high school outside of that PE class, and that PE class only made things a little worse. Sports were NOT the reason you were picked on in high school everybody, I don't know what any of you look like and I'm not trying to offend anyone, but from what you tell me and from what I know about high school you were likely picked on primarily because you weren't "cool". Everyone loves going to basketball and football games, but take it from me who's in high school right now, sports have very little to do with who's on the inside and who's out when it comes to cliques in high school. And I would say I'd have a better understanding than any of the sports haters here still in school, because it appears I'm the only one who's at least somewhat in that crowd at my school.

Another one of your guys biggest gripes, sports fans. Really, you guys generalize all, or most of sports fans into one big stereotype. The fact is, 99 percent(don't rip me for this, it's an educated guess) of sports fans do not worship their favorite sports team. Sports fans have lives outside of sports. There are many, many good people who like sports and are big fans. Are there sports fans in the trailer park? Yes, but they're not there because they liked sports. A lot of the big businessmen you will run into like sports. Our current president is a HUGE sports fan. The sports fan you guys speak of, while I admit does appear, is the exception rather than the norm. Many of you guys love rock n roll, how were those concerts back in the day? Definitely can't say there weren't a lot of rude people there with all the fights. Sports games are much more civil. Now, does the type of music you guys like attract the lowest common demoninator? I'd say so, given the fact that many people stereotype classic rock with trailer parks. I like classic rock myself, just trying to prove a point. Whether you like sports or not does dictate if you're a bad person or not. There's no way you can honestly believe that. And I don't want to hear about isolated incidents here and there. With the amount of sports fans there are, they're irrelevant.

Sports create many, many jobs. Take a second and think of all the people that could be employed in someway by sports. Pretty mind blowing isn't it? And the good thing is, the people who work in sports for the most part love what they're doing, because they love sports, which is why they picked that career path. More happy people is always good.

Sports can also provide you with life skills. Achieving goals, teamwork, perseverance, competitiveness, as well as many, many more. All of these are skills that can help you immensely in life, and those skills are helped develop by sports, among other things. Other things like social skills are also helped a lot by sports.

Sports make a lot of people happy on an everyday basis. They give people with an otherwise not so good life something to look forward to an escape, they give some people a way to get out of the ghetto, they give people something to do and occupy them so they stay out of trouble, they help develop relationships with people and teams and memories that you will never forget. Many of you guys don't understand this because you've never been on a team before, but you take team sports away from society(which many of you would be in favor of) and you create a big void in a A LOT of people's lives.

Sports can also teach you how to deal with failure, and standing up to something even if the odds are slim. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

As far as pro athletes making too much money, understandable. But sports are a big business, and these are the highly skilled entertainers. Also, there is a lot of hard everyday work for athletes, as well as the big time risk for injury that they fall face. Do they deserve 20 million a year? Probably not, but they do deserve good salaries.

Finally, sports have often became the escape and reason for happiness in tough times.

-After the Twin Towers were hit, the Yankees became the escape and reason for everyone to come together in that difficult time. Sports brought people who had lost family members together and made them feel ok for a few hours during that 2001 World Series. You cannot argue that sports had a positive impact there.

-After Hurricane Katrina hit, the next year in 06 the New Orleans Saints finally moved back into the Louisiana Superdome. Seeing the Saints back in the Superdome helped people feel normal again, and it was very inspirational for a lot of people to see the Superdome back after what it had become during Katrina. That year, the Saints made a run all way to the NFC Championship, which meant they were in the final four that year for the NFL's teams. This helped the people of New Orleans much like it helped the people of New York.

-In 1968, Detroit was just coming off a lot of riots and had a lot of racial tension. However, the Detroit Tigers, featuring african american players such as Willie Horton, brought the city together and helped patch things up in that city.

Other examples would be all the mentally disabled kids who were a team manager or something, and got to go in and score a basket and everyone cheered, things of that nature. Also, movies like Remember the Titans, Coach Carter, and Gridiron Gang, are all true stories in which sports helped a lot of kids get their life together.

I felt like in every thread I was getting a big post I'd have to reply to. I just put everything right here so you guys would EXACTLY where I'm coming from when it comes to my support of sports. This thread is in no way meant as disrespect to anyone, again, I'm just trying to show you guys why I feel the way I do.

If there's any bad parts about sports you feel I didn't address, please state them and I will reply.

Thanks for reading.

[Katrin]

Valid points there. Can't really argue with any of that.

But the website is called "Sports Suck" so any hope of changing anyone's opinion on sports is just wishful thinking.

Still, at least you actually make some interesting, fair points unlike jerks such as "Samdaman" who just seem to shout random insults!

[Millhouse]

My reply is posted below.

[Earl]

My response is not intended to be the beginning of a verbal tit for tat. I just want to engage in a dialogue, as corny as that may sound. My motivation is not to simply disagree with you, but to possibly clear up a misunderstanding or two. Although I may disagree with some of your statements, Iâ??m not trying to win a debate. With that being said, you said that many of us would be in favor of taking team sports away from society. First of all, we donâ??t have that power; and we donâ??t have any influence either. As Millhouse recently said, weâ??re just a small group of nobodies who visit a particular website to express our views to each other and to any sympathetic visitors to our website. Weâ??re not an advocacy group. As Iâ??ve said before, this website is just a ranting board with a particular point of view. The websiteâ??s logo â??DEDICATED TO THE ERADICATION OF SPORTSâ? is just hype.

(Iâ??ve been amazed at the angry reaction of hostile visitors to this website who have actually felt threatened by it, as if we could do anything to take away their sports -- telling us that weâ??ll never succeed, as if we were a mass movement about to sweep the country. Imagine that. I really donâ??t see why these people get so upset. They act as if weâ??re attacking something sacred. A sane reaction would be, oh, they donâ??t like sports -- oh, well, to each his own. I donâ??t know of any sports haters who go to sports websites and harangue against sports fans there; but sports fans come to this website, knowing perfectly well that it wasnâ??t set up for them, and usually make hateful statements that impugn our motives or our character. Ray raises a good question when he asks, Where does this anger come from?)

But most of all, we do not favor taking team sports away from society. None of us deny that sports are one of the many activities that characterize the human existence. As I've said before, what we object to are certain attitudes that are associated with particular sports. What's wrong with that? Back when I was a child, were the people who objected to Jim Crow being anti-American or unpatriotic? There are former athletes who make critiques of certains aspects of sports culture as sociologists or sports psychologists or psychiatrists. Are sports sacred, and are the social institututions associated with sports not to be subject to any critical evaluation? Thereâ??s an observation, I believe, that no one at this website, sports hater or sports fan, has ever made; and that is, that some sports are more equal than others. Notice, for example, that none of the supporters of this website have ever railed at tennis players or the athletes who play water polo. There clearly is a difference between criticizing certain aspects of a particular sports culture, and wanting to do away with a sport. An example of condemning a sport would be animal rights activists wanting bullfighting banned because of cruelty to animals. (And, no, I donâ??t like PETA.)

You should feel free to express your views. No one wants you to be banned again. I donâ??t mean to put you on the spot or offend you, but there is a question that keeps nagging me. Why do you care what we think? Iâ??m not meaning to be disrespectful by asking you this question. Iâ??m just puzzled by your concern about our views. We really donâ??t have any influence. I just donâ??t see that thereâ??s much at stake for you here (which does not mean that youâ??re not welcome). When I was your age, I used to care deeply about what people thought about certain political issues. I donâ??t anymore, because I now realize that people develop different points of view because theyâ??ve had different experiences. For example, a labor union activist would not be expected to understand the problems that face the owner of a small business. If your motivation is just to explain why you believe the way you do about sports, feel free to do so. If you just want to practice your debating skills with us (or you just like to have a good argument), I certainly have no problem with that either. After all, conflict seems to be the life of this Forum.

BTW, those of us who arenâ??t sports fans do have strong feelings about issues other than sports. For example, Fat Man, Ray, and I hate the American Civil Liberties Union with a passion. (See the last four posts of â??Yet another reason to avoid little league.â?)

[Polite24]

To answer any questions as to why I come here, I find it interesting because I so strongly disagree with what some of you guys say. Just debating, is all.

[Earl]

I understand. Sort of like a liberal listening to Michael Savage or Rush Limbaugh or a conservative (such as one of the moderators whom I know personally) listening to National Public Radio.

[Fat Man]

OK Impolite24 - AKA Detroitsportsbore08!!!

You still don't get it.

Often, I feel like I have to make the same argument over and over again, because you guys bring the same things up over and over. So here's why I think sports do far more good than harm.

Be careful, because if you keep chewing the same cud over and over again, you'll turn into another fat cow like me since I'm also being force to chew the same cud over and over again in response to your long moronic posts.

I'll start with admitting some bad things they can cause. At the school level, they can cause the star athletes to get big headed, and sometimes pick on other people. I will also state that the professional athletes make a bit too much money. Also, I concede that they can cause non athletic kids to lose confidence, and they may get picked on or made fun of because of the fact they suck at sports.

Well, at least you do acknowledge that professional athletes are overpaid and that they do get "big headed" and pick on other people. Of course, I don't call it "big headed" but rather, I call it being pea-brained.

But that's not accurate either, because first, one needs a brain in order to be pea-brained, so a more accurate term would be, pin-heads, or zips!

I'm also glad that you concede that non-athletic students get pick on because "suck at sports" so now, we're getting somewhere.

But still, not far enough, because it go way beyond merely being picked on, or verbal teasing, it goes all the way to brutal beatings.

Also, let me point out, it's not only because we "suck at sports" but we are also called unpatriotic or un-American because we don't like sports, and we are called sissies and fags because we like to read lots of books, study science and math, play chess, listen to classical music, and we like art.

But you have yet to answer my question.

Why is it that "nerds and geeks" don't go around beating up on people who don't like science and math, or playing chess and listening to classical music, or doing art. Why is it that we don't beat up on people who suck at reading and writing?

I mean, how would you like it, if I were to clobber some monkey-boy over the head with and Unabridged Funk & Wagnalls Dictionary because he couldn't rear or write.

But things like that never happen.

So, you still need to answer my question. How come, nerds and geeks don't beat up on jocks?

However, kids feeling worthless in high school seems to be your guys biggest gripe with sports, or least one of them. Truth be told, sports are hardly the biggest reason for kids feeling worthless in high school. In reality, it starts and ends with cliques. Popular kids, nerds, whatever label you want to put on a clique really. And whether you're in that group or not is almost always decided upon how you look, not sports. While sports do play somewhat of a role, they are hardly the reason kids get picked on in the way that will make their lives miserable. Besides Fat Man's story, you guys saying PE made your lives miserable for that short time you had is likely just a product of you guys being insecure in high school outside of that PE class, and that PE class only made things a little worse. Sports were NOT the reason you were picked on in high school everybody, I don't know what any of you look like and I'm not trying to offend anyone, but from what you tell me and from what I know about high school you were likely picked on primarily because you weren't "cool". Everyone loves going to basketball and football games, but take it from me who's in high school right now, sports have very little to do with who's on the inside and who's out when it comes to cliques in high school. And I would say I'd have a better understanding than any of the sports haters here still in school, because it appears I'm the only one who's at least somewhat in that crowd at my school.

Yes, I know all about the cliques in school, and thy act like snobs, going around thinking that they are better than everybody else, and sometimes we are subject to verbal teasing from them as well as the sports fans, but it's worse coming from the sports fans and the jocks.

The cliques, they don't go around throwing the other students through plate glass windows or down flights of stairs, or throwing beer bottle out of speeding cars at kids on bicycles. For some reason, it is mostly you monkey-boys who commit acts of violence.

Another one of your guys biggest gripes, sports fans. Really, you guys generalize all, or most of sports fans into one big stereotype. The fact is, 99 percent(don't rip me for this, it's an educated guess) of sports fans do not worship their favorite sports team. Sports fans have lives outside of sports. There are many, many good . . .

---------------------------------------- (snip!)

I clipped out the rest of the bullshit.

I'm am so sick and tired of seeing that number 99! That's just some figure that you keep pulling out of your ass and rubbing in our faces!

I don't know what the percentages are, but of all the sports fans that I have known, I only knew a very few who had a life outside of sports and did not worship their favorite team. I have known far more sports fans who were total assholes, who worshiped at the alter of sports, and even performed human sacrifices on the alter of sports by making their families shut up and not saying anything when there was a football game on TV, and getting drunk, and then, beating the holy crap out of their wives and kids when their favorite team lost the big game of the season!

You're only 18 years old, I'm 57 years old, therefore, I have know far more sports fans than you have known, and only a small minority had a life outside of sports, and not the 99% percent that you keep pulling out of your ass!

The majority of sports fans are absolute assholes!!!

I won't even attempt to give you any percentages, but I would say, that for every sports fan that I knew who had a life outside of sports, I knew four or five more who were wife-beating child-abusing assholes!!!

I swear to God, if I see you post the number 99 again, I'm going to put my fist through my computer monitor and hope that my fist comes out of your monitor, and I get to jam your teeth down your throat so far that you will need to see a proctologist instead of a dentist to work on your teeth.

I would like to kick your can up into your brain-case so hard you'll have to take off your hat to shine your shoes!

NO MORE NUMBER 99! OK???

Sports create many, many jobs. Take a second and think of all the people that could be employed in someway by sports. Pretty mind blowing isn't it? And the good thing is, the people who work in sports for the most part love what they're doing, because they love sports, which is why they picked that career path. More happy people is always good.

WWWOOOOOOOOPEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

I'm so glad that the people who have jobs related to sports are so happy!

Goody, goody, two shoes for them!!!

But I wanted to pursue a career that was not sports related.

In school, I wanted to study science, and pursue a career in Physics and Astronomy, but my high school didn't teach science, we only watched cartoons and learned how to fold paper footballs!

But I'm glad there are a lot of happy morons out there who are perfectly happy and contented selling peanuts, pretzels, and popcorn to all the other happy morons sitting on the bleachers.

Sports can also provide you with life skills. Achieving goals, teamwork, perseverance, competitiveness, as well as many, many more. All of these are skills that can help you immensely in life, and those skills are helped develop by sports, among other things. Other things like social skills are also helped a lot by sports.

Yeah, thanks to sports in school, you only need to be able to read and write at the 4th or 5th grade level in order to graduate from high school.

And the most important skill in life is bagging groceries in a super market, and you also get to develop your verbal skills by saying "Will that be paper or plastic?" and if you can say that without belching, then that's a good sign that you have developed your social skills.

Sports make a lot of people happy on an everyday basis. They give people with an otherwise not so good life something to look forward to an escape, they give some people a way to get out of the ghetto, they give people something to do and occupy them so they stay out of trouble, they help develop relationships with people and teams and memories that you will never forget. Many of you guys don't understand this because you've never been on a team before, but you take team sports away from society(which many of you would be in favor of) and you create a big void in a A LOT of people's lives.

Gee! I always thought that getting a good education was a really great way to escape from poverty and a way out of the ghetto. I mean, reading and studying Astronomy and going out at night with my telescope gave me something to occupy my mind.

But in school, I was not allowed to study science and Astronomy, and that created a really great big void in my life.

So, I really don't give a flying fuck about sports or sports fans.

I would love to see a total ban on sports, and then I hope that all of you morons become so depressed that you all drive your cars off the nearest cliff, all together, like some kind of moronic March Of The Lemmings!

Sports can also teach you how to deal with failure, and standing up to something even if the odds are slim. I could go on and on, but you get the point.

Oh yes indeed! Sports fans are very good at dealing with failure!

When their favorite team fails to win the big game of the season, they deal with their team's failure by going out into the streets, smashing store windows, setting fires, and overturning cars.

Excellent way to deal with failure!

As far as pro athletes making too much money, understandable. But sports are a big business, and these are the highly skilled entertainers. Also, there is a lot of hard everyday work for athletes, as well as the big time risk for injury that they fall face. Do they deserve 20 million a year? Probably not, but they do deserve good salaries.

Yeah! Athletes are highly skilled.

It takes more skill to kick a football or put a basketball through a hoop than it does to work out a quadratic equation, write a complex computer program, or make a precision ground lens or mirror for an astronomical telescope.

And they have a much higher big time risk of injuries than a construction worker walking a beam a hundred stories above the ground, or a coal miner, or someone in a job handling toxic chemicals, etc. etc.

And of course, they do deserve good salaries.

In a University, a football coach deserves to be paid at least twice as much as a physics professor.

Thanks for stetting me straight!

Now, I go puncture my eardrums with an ice pick and gouge my eyeballs out with a spoon!

I think I have seen and heard enough!

Finally, sports have often became the escape and reason for happiness in tough times.

-After the Twin Towers were hit, the Yankees became the escape and reason for everyone to come together in that difficult time. Sports brought people who had lost family members together and made them feel ok for a few hours during that 2001 World Series. You cannot argue that sports had a positive impact there.

-After Hurricane Katrina hit, the next year in 06 the New Orleans Saints finally moved back into the Louisiana Superdome. Seeing the Saints back in the Superdome helped people feel normal again, and it was very inspirational for a lot of people to see the Superdome back after what it had become during Katrina. That year, the Saints made a run all way to the NFC Championship, which meant they were in the final four that year for the NFL's teams. This helped the people of New Orleans much like it helped the people of New York.

-In 1968, Detroit was just coming off a lot of riots and had a lot of racial tension. However, the Detroit Tigers, featuring african american players such as Willie Horton, brought the city together and helped patch things up in that city.

African American - You need to capitalize proper names!

I see they didn't teach you shit in school!!!

Oh, I'm so happy that the New Orleans Saints finally move back into the Stupid Dome!

But when are the thousand of people, who had lost their homes to Hurricane Katrina, when are they finally going to have homes to move into?

The city is still a mess, and crime is much higher than ever before, and many of the neighborhood are still in ruins, and all you give a fuck about is the Stupid Dome!

Oh, as for 911, the jocks in our schools still bully the other students around, so the monkey-boys still like to make Jihad against the better students!

I bet the Jihad Jocks like to wipe their butts with sand, and they also hate art and music.

I say, send all the monkey-boys off to some Arab country where they can fuck camels, sheep, and goats, and leave our sisters and daughters alone!

Other examples would be all the mentally disabled kids who were a team manager or something, and got to go in and score a basket and everyone cheered, things of that nature. Also, movies like Remember the Titans, Coach Carter, and Gridiron Gang, are all true stories in which sports helped a lot of kids get their life together.

Well, I'm glad there is something for kids who are retarded or learning disabled.

But now, we need a program to protected the bright and gifted children from all the violent monkey-boys rampaging though our schools and bashing heads against lockers.

Oh wait! There is something that can put a stop to all of these violent monkey-boys in our schools, and to remove them from our schools.

It's called a jail!!!

I felt like in every thread I was getting a big post I'd have to reply to. I just put everything right here so you guys would EXACTLY where I'm coming from when it comes to my support of sports. This thread is in no way meant as disrespect to anyone, again, I'm just trying to show you guys why I feel the way I do.

Very boring post! Ho! Hum!

I kept nodding off, and my face kept hitting my keyboard.

If there's any bad parts about sports you feel I didn't address, please state them and I will reply.

Thanks for reading.

Well, I keep stating the bad parts and you keep ignoring them.

You also keep saying the same thing over and over again, and it's all bullshit!!!

[Earl]

Sorry, but Iâ??ve come to the realization that Iâ??ve been spending way too much time writing posts for this website. Iâ??ve got pressing concerns in my life now that demand my immediate attention. I could compose pages of well-written, detailed posts just on this topic alone; but I just donâ??t have the time now. I will fulfill my responsibilities as a moderator, though; and Iâ??ll still try to read everyoneâ??s posts (but resist the temptation to respond to them so often). Iâ??ll direct the rest of this post to Polite24. I have no problem with sports except when they are made out to be the end-all and be-all. (Remember, I live in Texas, where King Football reigns supreme.) I donâ??t deny that some boys can benefit in some ways from participating in sports, which I would never want to be denied to them. But I donâ??t believe that nonathletic boys are deficient or inferior simply because they donâ??t excel in a sport, as many in the athletic community seem to believe. I get irritated when athletic prowess is used as a yardstick of masculinity, and nonathletic boys are denigrated as supposedly being effeminate. My wife taught high-school math classes for eleven years and taught many â??nerdsâ?; i.e., nonathletic boys who excelled in math or one of the sciences. She told me that none of them were effeminate in their mannerisms; they just werenâ??t physically strong. A sociology professor named Patricia Cayo Sexton once wrote a book entitled The Feminized Male, in which she blamed nonathletic boys and men for causing social problems. (Of course, she viewed all athletic men as being â??real men.â?) When I read this book, I thought, â??Now I know how a black or a Jew feels who looks at white racist or anti-Semitic literature.â? So please donâ??t tell me that this mindset does not exist. The truth is that moral courage has nothing do with sports, one way or the other. There have been men of great courage who disliked competitive team sports when they were kids. (Of course, donâ??t tell Samdaman that.) They were not wimps or sissies. I actually respect and admire decent athletes, but the bullies and the thugs should be held accountable for their conduct off the playing field. You should also remember that nonathletes of my generation were required to take sports-centered PE (which did nothing to encourage us to be physically fit, but only taught us to fear coaches and athlete classmates) for years -- not for â??a short time.â? Any anger you detect in my comments is not directed against you personally. You seem to be a nice guy. I could write a lot more on this topic, but I just donâ??t have the time now.

[Ray]

Earl and Fatman, those were great responses. DSF presented the same old (and false) arguments in favor of sports and you guys made very reasoned responses. But I don't know why you go to all the trouble. No matter what you say, this clown won't understand.

I really can't add anything to what has already been said but to clarify:

There is obviously a problem with sports (or more precisely, as Earl said, the behavior associated with sports). This is evident by the growing number of visitors to this and similar sites. The number of websites echoing the sentiments expressed by this forum has increased so much that I have to be selective in what I put on our links page. There are dozens and dozens of them and more going up every day. Google "I hate sports" and look at the results. We receive hundreds of e-mails and posts a year from grateful sports-haters. My Space and Facebook have spawned huge and growing anti-sports channels. Clearly there is a problem. Does DSF think all these people are misfits who were picked on in junior high? The only reason the spread of the anti-sports movement hasn't reached critical mass is that because of the oppressive actions of sports fans, individuals are afraid to express their dislike in public. But that's changing. Because of the brave example set by the posters here, more and more people are standing up for themselves and telling sports fans to SHOVE IT!

[Earl]

I just received encouragement from a PM. I will continue to post when time permits.

[Fat Man]

A sociology professor named Patricia Cayo Sexton once wrote a book entitled The Feminized Male, in which she blamed nonathletic boys and men for causing social problems. (Of course, she viewed all athletic men as being â??real men.â?) When I read this book, I thought, â??Now I know how a black or a Jew feels who looks at white racist or anti-Semitic literature.â? So please donâ??t tell me that this mindset does not exist.

WOW!

This Patricia Cayo Sexton who wrote The Feminized Male and blames nonathletic boys and men for social problems, she sound like a real slut.

I guess that she believe that men should not pursue that arts and sciences, should not be in science, law, medicine, or art, but should all be athletes, or dig ditches.

So, she want's a real Macho man! Eh?

Maybe she would get off on some slobbering drooling monkey-boy who smells like the inside of a fisherman's boot, to bonk her on the head with a big club, and drag her back to his cave, and have his way with her!

She's actually worse than the sports bores and the monkey-boys because she encourages that sort of thing.

Well, she can have inscribed on her grave stone . . . . .

I WANTED A MACHO MAN!

I hope she'll have a nice eternity down in The Smokey Pokey doing The Hot Foot Dance!

[Millhouse]

First of all, I'm not meeting you halfway on any of this, because you have refused to address anything I've said, especially the role-reversal challenge. So don't expect me to go easy on anything you've written here.

Often, I feel like I have to make the same argument over and over again, because you guys bring the same things up over and over. So here's why I think sports do far more good than harm.

Oh boy. Let me strap myself in.

I'll start with admitting some bad things they can cause. At the school level, they can cause the star athletes to get big headed, and sometimes pick on other people. I will also state that the professional athletes make a bit too much money. Also, I concede that they can cause non athletic kids to lose confidence, and they may get picked on or made fun of because of the fact they suck at sports.

However, kids feeling worthless in high school seems to be your guys biggest gripe with sports, or least one of them. Truth be told, sports are hardly the biggest reason for kids feeling worthless in high school. In reality, it starts and ends with cliques. Popular kids, nerds, whatever label you want to put on a clique really. And whether you're in that group or not is almost always decided upon how you look, not sports. While sports do play somewhat of a role, they are hardly the reason kids get picked on in the way that will make their lives miserable.

What rock do you live on? What one school or community are you basing your 'facts' on? And you're downplaying this, cliques almost ALWAYS revolve around high school sports teams. You defended this in an earlier post. I'm not going to bother trying to find it but it's there...about sports and popularity. Now you're contradicting yourself and downplaying sports as a cause. It's one or the other... it's either popular or it's not as 'big of a deal' as to be the cause of kids feeling worthless. Get my drift?

I'm glad you have what you think is such a big grip on reality.

Another one of your guys biggest gripes, sports fans. Really, you guys generalize all, or most of sports fans into one big stereotype. The fact is, 99 percent(don't rip me for this, it's an educated guess) of sports fans do not worship their favorite sports team.

Atrocious grammar aside, I'm glad that you once again have enlightened us with a statistic. I'm sure it comes from a reliable source. As in, you pulled it straight out of your ass.

We generalize? This is what I mean by you not trying to meet us halfway. I don't generalize, nor do I argue for or against it to defend my position. You, on the other hand, the accuser of generalizations, are throwing what you yourself are guilty of. Generalizing? You? That's right. YOU.

"Really, you guys generalize all, or most of sports fans into one big stereotype. " < --- And you generalize it into 99 percent of all sports fans being applicable little well behaved angels in your garden of fucking eden perception of the sporting world.

Sports fans have lives outside of sports.

Another thing I keep responding to that you keep ignoring or bypassing. EVERYONE has lives outside of their hobbies, although in the case of the most rabid of sports fans, sports is more of an obsession, but I won't argue that point. The difference is, I don't bring my hobbies to work and jam them down everyone else's throats just because they're popular (which brings me again to segueway into you answering my role reversal challenge). Remember what I said, people make sports into a religion, and many of us are tired of not only being made fun of at work for not being sports fans, but we're sick of being ostracized for this, and for the things we like to do instead of watch or play sports.

This next exercise may prove useful in getting through to your thick skull. You are either getting the point and don't care, or you don't get the point at all.

"Did you see that Cowboys game last night?"
"No..."
"Not a football fan?"
"Not generally, no."
"Oh, that's too bad. You really should get out and watch a game or two every so often. Watch any sports?"
"No..."
"What do you like to do, then?"
"Oh, I have my hobbies..."
"Oh yeah? Like what?"
"Models and miniatures, reading nerdy stuff, working on computers, video games..."
"Ah..."

Person walks away and snickering ensues. Then that person spreads the word to other co-workers, and hilarity at my expense ensues.
Now let's switch that dialogue to make it a church scenario.
Note: I am NOT crapping on anyone's religion here, I'm just saying that sports fanatics and their habits and attitude bear a strong resemblance to the more extreme churches.

"Did you see Brother Bill's sermon last night?"
"No."
"Not a fan of God?"
"Not necessarily, I have my own beliefs."
"What do you believe, then?"
"Oh, this and that..."
"Oh yeah? Like what?"
"That there might be a higher power up there, but I like to philosophically think and talk about it, and..."
"Ah..."

Person walks away, spreads the word to the flock, and the entire church congregation ostracizes me for not coming.

The sad thing here is, for people that need it in their lives, I see a VERY important point to religion. But...

I don't appreciate excess proselytizing. And that is precisely what sports fans do, from the rabid ones to the more subtle ones. They either expect you to already know about it because you're male, or if you do not, they try to convert you, every last one of them tries to be happy go lucky, "oh, he won't resist me", every single time you come across a new person that finds out that you aren't very ahem, sports inclined. It's just like extreme organized religion.

You call us a minority, Polite. But the truth is, so are you. You're a minority because most sports fans don't give intelligent responses like the ones you've given. You need to remember that before you champion something.

Many of you guys love rock n roll, how were those concerts back in the day? Definitely can't say there weren't a lot of rude people there with all the fights. Sports games are much more civil.

Bull. SHIT.

I have one word for you; modern Hockey. And yes, I've been to a game or two.

I find it interesting that you insultingly believe that just because we aren't sports fans means that all of us don't know anything at all about sports.

After the Twin Towers were hit, the Yankees became the escape and reason for everyone to come together in that difficult time. Sports brought people who had lost family members together and made them feel ok for a few hours during that 2001 World Series. You cannot argue that sports had a positive impact there.

Yes, I'm sure every single solitary New Yorker affected by the tragedy went to or tuned in to a Yankee's game. I wouldn't have to deal with something that horrible, and chances are, I'm sure there are people like me living in New York. Chances are you're wrong on this. So yes, I can argue the point all I like.

And it's pretty poor taste to use 9-11 as an example to support your arguments, just for the record.

Your other two examples, I don't buy it. Cities come back from disasters because the people living there have pride in what they are, and because neighboring communities care, not because of some damned sports team.

You're overglorifying sports to the point of making all of us ill.

And therein lies the focus of the problem.

I don't believe anyone on this website really thinks that sports are fundamentally flawed, nor that they should be banned, nor should they be done away with. But keep in mind, you are conversing with people who are at the end of their mental rope when it comes to what I'm about to say.

I'm going to say it one more time. It's things like this...you touting a sports team as a way of bringing a city back from an event like Hurricane Katrina...sports FANS and FANDOM, that irritates the lot of us.

There are people out there I'm sure that would actually play sports if there weren't overzealous lunatics like you in it to ruin it for everyone else.

It was never sports that I hated. It's the popularity and fandom that comes with competitive sports, that is consistently shoved down my throat that I can't stand. And of course, you're going to say that 99 percent of sports fans actually aren't the ones doing that to me, because you like sports, and therefore have never had to deal with someone proselytizing something you don't like to you, which again is why I encourage you to take my role reversal challenge and respond to it.

In fact, I'm quite sure you're completely incapable of understanding what it's like being a non sports fan to deal with the bullshit on a daily basis at work, and that's just one walk of life you encounter it in. You hear it so much, that even the people whom you might have judged as having been nice about it begin to annoy you.

One last time. I don't hate sports, I even see a use for them. Popularity and sports fans, though, they can go jump in a lake.

Sports create many, many jobs.

I about rolled out of my chair laughing at this one. So what? So do a lot of things, and not all of them are entertainment based.

Anyway, I'm going to stop here because I have the flu and need to rest. Will check back later.

[RaleighRob]

Well at this point I don't have anything to add after Earl, Fatman and Millhouse and said their peace. (Well done guys...especially Earl for civil tone and taking time from your busy life.)

Wow...this Patricia Sexton sounds like an alias for Ann Coulter.

[Fat Man]

OK, I didn't give much of a response to the following the last time.

After the Twin Towers were hit, the Yankees became the escape and reason for everyone to come together in that difficult time. Sports brought people who had lost family members together and made them feel ok for a few hours during that 2001 World Series. You cannot argue that sports had a positive impact there.

The reason I didn't give much of a response the last time, was because it was getting late in the evening, I was tired, your long post was boring as usual, I kept nodding off and my face hitting the keyboard, and I seriously needed to log some sack-time.

But now, I have to respond.

All I have to say is like, YEAH RIGHT!!!

When I saw the towers come down on 9/11 my eyes were glued to the TV watching the NEWS all the time. I was so angry, upset, and depressed that for a few months afterward, I did not feel like watching my favorite science fictions programs on TV or any other programs, but only that which was related to 9/11 because I didn't care about anything else.

I still listened to my favorite radio talk-shows such as Phil Hendrie and Art Bell.

But on Phil Hendrie, instead of him doing his usual comic routine, doing his voice imitations, he talked about 9/11 and the low-life scums who flew the planes into the twin towers.

And when asked by a caller, when he was going to get back to his usual comic routines, he said that he may never be in the mood to get back to his original format, that he wanted to get back to reality!

So, I continued to listen to him talking about 9/11 because I wanted to hear what he had to say, and everything he said was RIGHT ON!!!

I also continued to listen to Art Bell, but instead of his usual format, talking about UFOs, the para-normal, etc. etc. and all the other fascinating topics, he devoted his program over the next couple of months to 9/11 instead, and again, I still continued to listen to him.

For about three months, I was in no mood to watch movies or anything entertaining on TV, and I was in no mood to listen to my favorite music, or anything.

Of course, when I later heard that the radical Islamic fundamentalists wanted to ban music, and they want to ban alcohol, then I would listen to my favorite classical music all day long while the news was on TV, and I kept a case of beer in my fridge.

So, I drank beer and listened to music as my own private way to protest against the Muzzies who would ban the very things I enjoy, and at the same time, listening to NEWS about 9/11 on the radio or watching it on TV.

But it was a long time before I was in the mood to watch entertaining movies on TV.

I also had a web site with Angelfire called The Nerds And Geeks Emporium, and I put up a lot of web pages telling the truth behind Islam, and pages speaking out against antisemitism, and pages supporting Israel and the Jews. I had 9/11 videos including the ones of people jumping from the towers which you don't see anymore. I still have them on my computer that I can up-load again at anytime.

Here are some of the images I had, that I created myself.



This is from the "Where's Waldo?" type of web sites, but I changed it by pasting Osama Bin Ladin's head to Waldo's body.



This image was inspired be a video from Newgrounds, so I did a Google image search for a map of Afghanistan, pasted Osama's head to the map and added the text, all your base are belong to us.



I love this one! One of my favorites.



I put this one together after television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson made their stupid comments saying that America got what it deserves. The remark about the ACLU, well, at the time I still supported the ACLU, but then, after the ACLU started defending NAMBLA pedophiles, I disowned the ACLU, and I can no longer support them, so they too can go down to the Smokey Pokey to do the Hot Foot Dance, and where that woodbine twineth and the iceman venture not! So I say, fuck them all!!!



Here is what I think of right-wing evangelists!



This one is kind of cute. I created this one on a web site where you can design your own graphics.



Well, I don't know if my web site was actually banned by the 700 club, but I created this to put on my web site because I think that it looks really cool!!!



Here's another one I created.



Another one of my own creations.



I love this one. I didn't make this one though.



This one was from Phil Hendrie's web site.



This one I created myself and E-mailed to Art Bell's web Site and when Art Bell announced his retirement from talk radio back in 2003, they produced a CD ROM disk featuring his web site and Art Bells farewell speech, and this image that I created is on the disks. I ordered my own copy which had cost me about 30 dollars, and I was surprised to see my very own creation on it.



Here's another one I created, but apparently it wasn't good enough to be put up on Art Bells web site or featured on the CD disk. Oh well, you can't win them all! But I'm glad they liked my Art Bell Coffee.

Art Bell wrote a book titled The Quickening so I created this image as a joke, a kind of a pun.

Anyway, this is what I was doing in the months following 9/11 on my web site called The Nerds And Geeks Emporium.

I also had a lot of anti-jock stuff and anti-sports stuff on my web site.

But then after a couple of years, Angilfire shut down my web site because of my anti-Islam pages, and my anti-jock and anti-sports pages, so thanks to the low-life scums being offended, my web site is now defunct!

YEAH! So much for freedom of speech in America!

Some jocks were offended, so they had their coaches write to Angelfire for them because jocks can't read or write, and because the jocks were offended, my web site was shut down!

Yeah, the jocks were offended! God forbid that I should offend the jocks! Aw! Poor babies! They can just go wrap themselves up in a security blanket, suck their thumbs and wet their pants while hugging a football! Fuck them all!!!

Anyway, after 9/11, I was in no mood for any entertainment, and I expressed my anger creating my web pages, and thanks to the Muzzies and the jocks My web site was shut down!

I seriously doubt that anyone who had lost a loved one in when the twin towers went down, I really doubt that anyone of them took any comfort watching the The New York Yankees. They were too damn busy trying to recover their lost ones to be bothered with sports.

Many of the families who had lost a loved one in the buildings did not even have a body to properly bury at a funeral. They were lucky to have a ring or a broken watch recovered from a loved one who died in the collapsing towers.

So, Mr. Impolite24 - AKA Detroitsportsbore08, you are a moron if you think the families of the victims of 9/11 had any time for sports.

Maybe you monkey-boys would have the time, but not the rest of us who are human beings.

Yeah! I can see it now, a couple of monkey-boy sports bores just after watching the towers collapse on TV.

Uh, huh, that was cool!!! Huh! Huh! Huh!

Duh! Yeah, that sure was cool! Duh! Now let's go see if there's a football game on TV. Duh! Huh! Huh! Huh!

But for the rest of us, we could give a flying fuck about sports!

Sorry, but most of us derived no comfort from sports after 9/11 except maybe you brain-dead monkey-boys who will not even evacuate a bar-room fire when there's a football game on TV.

And you can take that to the bank!!!

[Earl]

RaleighRob, thanks for the compliment.

Your comment that Patricia Sexton sounds like an alias for Ann Coulter made me chuckle. Poor Ann Coulter â?¦ such a timid soul. Just a regular shrinking violet. Doesnâ??t have much to say. Anyway, theyâ??re not one and the same. Patricia Cayo Sexton, who is a lot older than Coulter, is a nut case. Sheâ??s filled with bitter resentment and hatred against nonathletic, intellectual men. So what does she choose as a profession? She becomes a professor, a position that is most likely to bring her into contact with those whom she despises so much! Why didnâ??t she go into some other line of work? Go figure. Her â??feminized maleâ? thesis is patently absurd. She claims the reason that Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated President John F. Kennedy in 1963 and that Sirhan Sirhan assassinated Senator Bobby Kennedy in 1968 is that the two assassins were â??feminizedâ? males who lashed out at the Kennedy brothers out of resentment of their virility! I guess the assassinsâ?? radical political views and their lack of respect for human life had nothing to do with it. (I tell you, Iâ??m not making this up. Sexton really says this.) By the way, Oswald served in the Marines for three years; but he was still â??feminizedâ?? As you may know, in 1968 at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago, there was a riot between hippie anti-Vietnam War demonstrators and the local cops. Sexton claims that the demonstrators were â??feminizedâ? males who rioted against the police because they hated the cops for being virile! (Yes, this is hilarious.) The cops themselves would have said that was baloney. They would have said that the demonstrators simply had no respect for authority. A sociology professsor whom I know personally (who, incidentally, played college football and became a critic of machismo) calls Sexton a reactionary.

Within the last ten years, I came across another interesting comment that she had just made; and this one is also rich. She said (and I think Iâ??m actually quoting her word for word), â??Beware of scientists. Theyâ??re pencil-necked geeks.â? If she hates scientists that much, she should deprive herself of all the modern comforts and conveniences that â??geekyâ? scientists have made possible. Perhaps she should go live, say, somewhere in the middle of the African continent in a village out in the middle of nowhere that has no electricity, no air-conditioning, no hospitals, no nothing. There is a radio talk show host who should join her. Dennis Miller, a Johnny-come-lately to the ranks of conservative radio talk show hosts. Dennis Miller, who lacks the gentlemanly decorum of Dennis Prager and the intellectual vigor of Michael Savage. Miller, who looks like a seedy character from a Las Vegas nightclub and who will always be a little fish in a rather large pond. Miller, who is a big sports fan, thinks bullying of â??nerdsâ? by student athletes is funny. He also denigrates scientists with junior-high level â??humorâ? that would bore even some junior-high students.