the Penn State scandal

[Earl]

Sandusky case triggers pain well beyond campus
As adults, men suffer nightmares, anger, anxiety from childhood abuse





By Kari Huus
Reporter

msnbc.com
updated 11/16/2011 2:01:09 PM ET


As the Penn State sex abuse scandal unfolds â?? ghastly detail by detail â?? on front pages, the airwaves and Twitter accounts, the news can be especially devastating for one group in particular: former victims of sexual abuse.

â??Another night of triggers and flashbacks,â? writes a forum member on MaleSurvivor.org, a website devoted to healing male victims of sexual abuse. â??â?¦ I felt him all over me and my arms are scratched as I try to get the feeling of his hands off me. â?¦ I think all the (Penn State) news set the triggers off, and now I am like a zombie, trying to recover and move forward today.â?

â??I never met Jerry Sandusky, but feel I know him all too well,â? writes another member of the forum, referring to the universityâ??s former defensive coordinator who stands accused of sexually molesting at least eight young boys. â??I dealt with my own â??Jerryâ?? when I was 12 or 13. â?¦ Now that he is sated and I am long forgotten, I'm still picking up the pieces.â?

â??This whole thing is devastating me. These boys are lost in the details ... just as most of us here were,â? the member added.

Psychologists say that any sex abuse victim â?? man or woman â?? may find that news of the Penn State case sparks painful memories. But the way this case is unfolding strikes an especially deep chord with men.

â??It can be very triggering of either their own memories â?? they may get flashbacks â?? or they may get angry again,â? said Richard Gartner, a psychologist and psychoanalyst in New York, and spokesman for Malesurvivor.org. Some men may have to limit their news consumption, and maybe avoid watching football to avoid a panic attack or bout of depression, he said.

â??It is re-traumatizing for them â?? more so to the extent that they believe that this is being handled wrong â?¦ and ignoring the needs of the victims.â?

Different experience for boys
Sexual abuse has a different impact on boys than on girls, and they deal with it differently because of socialization, experts say.

â??Men arenâ??t supposed to be victims. Men are supposed to be strong,â? said Jim Hopper, clinical instructor of psychology at Harvard Medical School. â??A man says Iâ??m not a real man, because I let someone do this to me. I should have been tougher. Even after years of therapy they say this.â?

Girls who are abused by men are psychologically damaged, to be sure, experts say, but boys abused by men often come to question their sexual identity and orientation.

â??If they were sexually abused by a man, thereâ??s this whole stigma â?? does that mean Iâ??m gay, or did he do it to me because I look gay?â? says Hopper.

Another difference: Boys who are forced into sexual acts may have an erection â?? a physiological response which makes them all the more confused and ashamed of the encounter, Gartner says.

The womenâ??s movement helped bring sexual assault of females into the public eye â?? and led to tougher penalties against attackers, more policy aimed at prevention and better access to care for victims. The focus on sexual abuse of boys came nearly 20 years later, when hundreds of childhood victims went public with stories of abuse by Catholic priests, according to Gartner.

Shame, silence, secrecy
Still, the shame and stigma makes it less common for boys to report abuse and seek help than girls, studies show.

â??Men tend to come into treatment much later in life,â? said Gartner. â??Usually they are in their 30s, 40s or 50s â?? occasionally in their 70s â?? never having spoken about this.â?

Their reluctance to talk about abuse is partly to blame for the perception that sexual abuse of boys is rare, Gartner said.

Research shows that about one in six boys are sexually abused before they are 16 years old, according to Hopper, a founding board member of the nonprofit organization 1in6, which aims to help men deal with abuse they experienced as children, and provides comprehensive resources on 1in6.org.

The number for girls is one in four. The statistics do not include verbal harassment or other forms of non-physical sexual abuse, such as forcing a child to watch a sexual act.

Reports of sexual abuse by boys are still more likely to be dismissed, researchers say, which can intensify the victimâ??s pain and difficulty later in life.

"Boys who are sexually abused are mostly disbelieved, or it is minimized," said Gartner. "They're told, 'just get over it'."

"They learn that nobodyâ??s safe," said Hopper. "Thatâ??s really devastating. â?¦ that people who were supposed to protect me are not going to help me, they are blaming me!"

That perception by a child can lead to a wide array of problems as they grow older, including depression, anxiety, emotional numbing, substance abuse, and difficulty forming healthy relationships.

PTSD in high gear
Robert Brown, 51, who is now open about his story, was repeatedly sexually assaulted over the course of seven years when he was a child. He says the perpetrators were older boys who were favored because they were top athletes in his small New Hampshire town, while his plight was ignored by adults.

Brown did not acknowledge the problem to anyone until four years ago, when he was blindsided by a severe bout of post-traumatic stress.

Now he is a child protection activist, and shares his story with other members on the MaleSurvivor.org forum, many of whom keep their abuse secret. He also gives talks on the issue.

â??In my lifetime and in my time with all other survivors that I know, the Penn State case is the most earth-shattering one for us to face,â? Brown said in an interview.

â??Probably because of the authority abused and the trust abused by the sports program and by Jerry Sandusky. It gets worse when we see that itâ??s underprivileged kids being so badly abused as if they are throwaway people," he added.

â??We identify very, very strongly with these boys. And we identify with the poor handling of this. To think there are 15-year-old cases that have never been dealt with," Brown said. â??It kicks off the (post-traumatic stress) into high gear â?? nightmares, flashbacks, extreme depression. Itâ??s been some of the worst few days of my life emotionally.â?

Gartner said that while the Penn State case has clearly caused pain and anguish for men struggling with the aftermath of abuse, it does demonstrate that perceptions have changed since the 1980s, when he started treating sexually abused men.

â??Before the (Catholic) church scandal, even in professional meetings, people rolled their eyes, feeling that (sexual abuse of boys) happened rarely,â? said Gartner. â??Now, nobody seems to be saying it doesnâ??t happen. It does give people courage to come forward and disclose and get help, and thatâ??s positive.â?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45314171/ns ... nd-campus/

[recovering_fan]

I am eagerly awaiting Fat Man to accept my challenge to play a game of Chess.

I already made the point that online chess results are meaningless between people who are bent on showing each other up. Your only response (paraphrased) was "oh, he can trust me cuz' I don't cheat." But somehow I doubt there's ever going to be much trust between the two of you.

BTW, if people are interested, here's how to cheat at online chess.
(I've never done it, but I'm the type to worry about other people pulling this sort of thing.)

There's no reason to assume a priori that Fit Man would be the dishonest one, so in fairness to Fit Man I'll describe how Fat Man could cheat if he so desired:

STEP 1: Fat Man opens a game with Fit Man in one window, and in the other window he opens a game with a chess playing machine (like http://chess.delorie.com/). It's critical that if Fit Man is playing white, then the computer program must be playing black -- and vice verse.

STEP 2: Let's say Fit Man is playing white. When he makes an opening move, Fat Man makes the same opening move (as white) in the game against the computer. When the computer makes a counter move in its game, Fat Man makes the same counter move against Fit Man.

STEP 3: This routine continues until the game ends. Basically, Fat Man just plays the role of a messenger, relaying moves back and forth between Fit Man and the chess-playing program.

And that's ... how to cheat at online chess.

[recovering_fan]

@ Earl:

Good post, Earl.

I think the reason no one has responded has to do with the fact that we all agree with you on this.

-RF

[Brigan]

I don't think a chess is even needed anymore, Earl kinda put Fat Man on his place. It is yet to be seen If Fat Man learns from this and grow up.

[Earl]

@ Earl:

Good post, Earl.

Thank you.

I think the reason no one has responded has to do with the fact that we all agree with you on this.

-RF

I understand, and thanks for telling me. I started posting articles feverishly because there had been no mention of the scandal in this forum. I certainly hadn't said a word about it myself.

I didn't expect much of a response because most of us here are too sickened for words. I mean, what can you say? On Thursday night of last week, I actually experienced insomnia after I read about the riot by Penn State students who were protesting not because a pedophile coach had not been reported to the police for nine years, but because the head coach had been fired. What a bunch of morally deficient, self-centered crybabies! The football culture in full blossum! They reminded me of a lynch mob, by the way. I had also read about the sister of one of the victims, a coed who happens to be a student at Penn State. She had heard other students in her class joke about the victims. Absolutely sick! No wonder I had insomnia! On the following Friday night as I was driving over to the local post office to drop off some bills, I broke out in tears as I thought about the victims, who were all but forgotten. After all, the football program is more important than anything else! I'm sure they got the message from the rioters loud and clear. Disgusting! Any respect I ever had for Penn State as an institution is gone.

This scandal has deeply affected anyone who suffered abuse as a child or simply had an unhappy childhood. My sister recently told me how a friend of hers reacted to this scandal. Her friend had been repeatedly abused physically by her parents. When she called my sister on the phone, she was in tears about what had happened to those kids.

Incidentally, I'd like to call our attention to a particular item in the last online article I posted in this thread.

Robert Brown, 51, who is now open about his story, was repeatedly sexually assaulted over the course of seven years when he was a child. He says the perpetrators were older boys who were favored because they were top athletes in his small New Hampshire town, while his plight was ignored by adults. (my italics)

Did any of you notice this? Can you believe any of this stuff goes on (which, again, is usually not reported by the sports media)? Again, absolutely pathetic! This is what is called "jock privilege."

I don't accept the label "sports hater." I'm not interested in chess. Does that mean that I hate it? Of course, not. By the same reasoning, I've never had any interest in ball games or athletic events. Does that mean I hate them? Of course, not.

What I'm critical of is the culture, not the game. Because I believe in justice, I'm sickened by injustice. There have been instances of entire communities rallying behind one or more high-school or college athletes accused of committing violent crimes against others. No consideration is given to the victim. To the contrary, the victim is disregarded or even persecuted. Does the sports media report such despicable conduct on the part of sports fans and boosters of school sports? Are you kidding?

Actually, the truth be known, the real sports haters are not those who support this website. The real sports haters are those who corrupt sport. They are the enablers that care more about having a winning team than they are about the conduct of the players when they are not participating in a game. Witness the Penn State students who rioted. The real sports haters are those who put athletes and coaches on pedestals (instead of just giving them the respect to which they are entitled) and give them preferential treatment, which causes seemingly many of them to become arrogant. Those who become arrogant believe that the rules don't apply to them. Joe Paterno seems to have started coaching at Penn State as a reformer, but he became arrogant because he was literally worshipped by most people on that campus. He had a cult going for himself at Penn State. Call it a cult of personality. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao would have been jealous. Decent fans and coaches want their players to be decent human beings and to not mistreat others when they aren't participating in a game. But many of the fans apparently couldn't care less about how individual players treat others. All they care about is winning games. All they care about is having a winning season. That's all they care about. A coach who does a great job instructing his players how to be decent human beings (in other words, real character building) is likely to lose his job if the teams he coaches don't have winning streaks (which, as we all know, was not the reason why Paterno was fired). So, the worst enemies of sport are found among the sports fans, athletes, and coaches themselves. Winning is everything. Morality, decency, and compassion are expendable. In the minds of these people, these traits have no value whatsoever.

Joe Ehrmann speaks of moral failures in the world of sports. Who caused those? Did any of the members of this forum or any of the other supporters of this website cause those? No, we didn't. Those who are responsible for the corruption of sport are many of the sports fans, coaches, and athletes. This would also include all the enemies of this website who have responded not with reasoned arguments of the sort presented previously (by SportsGuy92, for example), but with personal attacks often laced with vulgarity. Sorry, guys, but you are the real sports haters. Read it and weep.

And I'm convinced that in the long run, things will continue as they are in the world of school sports on both the high-school and college level. There will be no reforms. "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

[ChrisOH]

Not trying to detract from the discussion of the Penn State scandal, but I feel I need to clarify some things here.

I was going to write a longer post, but I've had it. I have neither the time nor the patience.

Fat Man, I'm sick and tired of your religious bigotry. Hitler was not a creationist. You've really flipped your lid on this one.

Actually, there's some evidence that at least when Hitler wrote Mein Kampf he did hold some creationist views. This site talks about some quotes from Mein Kampf that illustrate that:

http://mathpages.blogspot.com/2008/03/h ... onism.html

Not too long ago, you said Hitler was a faithful Catholic! I have no interest in whitewashing Catholic scandals or promoting unscriptural doctrine taught by the Catholic church, but your characterization is Looney Tunes.

I don't know if I would consider him a "faithful" Catholic, but he was influenced by Catholicism in his upbringing, and stated publicly that he intended to remain a Catholic. There's a Wikipedia article that explores the topic of Hitler's relationship to religion more deeply:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitl ... ious_views

He was inclined towards Norse mythology. He called Jesus Christ "a blemish like circumcision" and Judeo-Christian ethics as "a slave morality." After the war the Nazis were going to crack down on the churches. The Nazis had formed their own "church" whose "Jesus" was an Ayran warrior (definitely not a Jew).

As the article goes into, there are many conflicting reports on what Hitler's "true" beliefs were about religion. From what I've gathered from article and TV programs about him, his intent was to morph religion into a Nazi doctrine, with himself as the "Messiah", of course, rather than Jesus.

Personally, I was think he was like any other megalomaniac and dictator -- say and do whatever it takes, and espouse any views necessary, to get absolute power, then destroy any perceived threats to that power.

You say that religion has killed more people than anything else. What about the atheistic Communist movement, which claimed the lives of 100 million human beings in less than a century? You gripe incessantly about Galileo, yet you never have anything to say about the violent persecution of Mendelian geneticists in the Soviet Union under Stalin. Soviet scientists were murdered simply because they insisted upon following true scientific principles, instead of the party line of the Communists. Of course, I guess their persecution doesn't matter because, after all, they were persecuted by atheists instead of Catholics or some other denomination.

I am an atheist, and have been for 15 years, and I absolutely do not support the actions or philosophies of Stalin or Soviet-style communism. Stalin may have been officially "atheist", however, he created a "cult of personality" around himself and Lenin (who, incidentally and ironically, wanted Stalin removed as leader of the Communist Party, due to his power-hungry tendencies, before Lenin's own death in 1924). This "cult of personality" much more closely resembled a fundamentalist religion than anything atheistic. If anything, the Soviet Union should serve as an example of why a particular belief system (religious or otherwise) should not and cannot be forced on people. (And yes, Christian Reconstructionists like Michele Bachmann, this means you, too. Give it whatever label you want, totalitarianism is all the same.)

I don't personally speak against communism that much, not because I agree with it, but because I don't feel it's the main threat to our nation and world right now. Religious extremism and far-right philosophies are much more of a danger, and that's what I focus criticism on.

In any event, atheism and communism are not the same thing. Communism is a political and economic philosophy; atheism simply means one doesn't believe in the existence of a deity. It says nothing whatsoever about one's philosophies on anything else.

The theory of evolution is your religion. Once, I said the words "social Darwinism" to you in a phone call; and you really tensed up. You claim that moral precepts have come out of evolutionist theory, which is ludicrous. Moral principles can be traced back to the Bible. Incidentally, there is an evolutionist school of thought that holds that rape is natural. There are people who speak of the suicide of bullied kids as "culling the herd." Where do you think that attitude comes from? Out of the Bible? No, it's an attitude based upon the theory of evolution, which holds that man is nothing more than a gloried animal. Your guiding principle seems to be WWCD, which stands for "What would Charles do?"

"Social Darwinism" (founded by Herbert Spencer in the late 19th century, and who coined the phrase "Survival of the Fittest", not Charles Darwin himself) and other movements with Darwin in their name often had nothing to do with Darwin himself or his scientific work.

As for bullying being justified by the theory of evolution, again, there's support for quite the opposite view. (Hate to just keep posting links, but I figure better to point straight to the source than to misquote or lift out of context):

http://scienceray.com/biology/evolution ... -humanity/

Incidentally, the Old Testament of the Bible is explicitly prejudiced against people with illnesses or disabilities. For example, those who were lame, castrated, had skin diseases, etc., were banned from the Jewish temple (or at least certain parts of it), and could not become priests. Women were even considered "unclean" after childbirth or menstruation. So the stories of Jesus touching and healing lepers, the lame and blind, etc., would have been especially scandalous in that age, as he was going against Old Testament teaching by touching and associating with these people. (Actually, Jesus would probably be thrown out of most fundamentalist churches that bear his name today -- he'd be too "liberal" and "socialist" for their tastes.)

You assume anyone who believes in the Bible is a carbon copy of the false teacher Pat Robinson.

Unfortunately, they seem to be the most vocal (the Robertson followers et al). Perhaps Christians who don't share these views need to be more forceful in their dissent.

I hate to disillusion you, but some people who reject the theory of evolution are quite intelligent and are smarter than you. My brother-in-law, a member of my church who definitely believes in the creation account in Genesis, is one of the leading radiologists in this country.

I don't doubt that he's very intelligent -- in his field. Radiologists deal heavily with the technological side of medicine. I've found quite a few creationists are engineers or technicians by trade. They design and use tools and equipment, so perhaps they also believe the world and life itself had to have a "designer." By contrast, I know of very few biological scientists who are creationists (aside from Kent Hovind types with diploma-mill "degrees"). I don't know of any studies on this; just my own ideas and observations.

I know, Earl, that your post was meant for Fat Man, and I don't mean to be a "buttinsky" and speak for him, but I just felt a need to offer some perspective. Hopefully I've done so in a respectful manner -- if not, I apologize to you and the forum.

[Fat Man]

OK, it's been almost a week, last Monday, since I have posted in this topic. The following day, last Tuesday, I got a couple of private messages from Earl. No, I'm not going to reveal the content because it's private.

Everything is OK, and we're still friends, and we will always be, even if we may not agree on certain things.

Last night he called me to let me know that he posted another article on the Penn State scandal, but he advised me to wait until morning before reading it, because he informed me that it might be too disturbing to read so late at night before going to bed.

I followed his advice, and waited until this morning to read it. Thank you Earl.

I'm glad I waited until morning to read it. Yes, it was very disturbing. Reading this latest article left me feeling really depressed and very angry, because it brought back some more painful memories.

I'm glad that I took Earl's advice and waited until I got up in the morning before reading it.

Now then . . . . . before I go on, this is going to be a bit off topic.

Then I will get back on the topic of this recent Penn State scandal.

But first . . . . .

. . . . . Earl kinda put Fat Man on his place. It is yet to be seen If Fat Man learns from this and grow up.

If anybody needs to grow the fuck up, it's you, ya moron!!!

Now, to continue . . . . .

OK, concerning religion . . . . .

In the past, in these forums, I have never meant to imply that ALL Christians were bad.

I have mentioned before numerous times in these forums in other topics, that Copernicus, Galileo, Johannes Kepler, and Isaac Newton, historical figures whom I admire and respect very much, were Christians. Copernicus and Galileo were Catholic, while Johannes Kepler and Isaac Newton were Lutherans.

Galileo remained loyal to his church, despite all the terrible things that were done to him, being interrogated for days, threatened with torture, and forced to sign a false confession, and placed under house arrest for the remainder of his life.

Johannes Kepler had to leave his homeland after being excommunicated by his church, and he struggled for 6 years to get his mother released from prison after she was accused of witch craft. He actually blamed himself for that, because he wrote a work of fiction, a story of going to the moon through the use of some kind of enchantment, which some believed was a method he learned from his mother. It was only a fantasy, not meant to be taken seriously.

Now, concerning the age of the earth . . . . .

Back in the 1700s some geologists suspected that the earth had to be much older than a mere 6000 years. They had estimated the age of the earth to be at least 100 million years. Of course, they didn't know about radioactive elements as we do now when we check the age of various rock layers and strata, so they were off in their estimate, but they were on the right track. And incidentally, these geologists were in fact Christians.

And finally, the first zoologist to have classified humans as primates was, Carolus Linnaeus. This was over a hundred years before Darwin, and Carolus Linnaeus was also a Christian.

OK, now I feel the need to respond to the following.

Incidentally, there is an evolutionist school of thought that holds that rape is natural. There are people who speak of the suicide of bullied kids as "culling the herd."

Darwin would have been appalled by that!!!

He only talked about changing environments, mutation, decent with modification, and natural selection. We humans have imposed artificial selection on farm animals and crops for centuries, selecting plants and animals for their most "desirable" traits as far as we are concerned. As a result we have many cases where one species of plant or animal has branched off into several different species.

Natural selection works in exactly the same way as artificial selection, and it's not necessarily the smartest, or the strongest, or the fastest that make it, but rather the ones who are able to adapt to changing environments.

Darwin would never advocate what these so-called "evolutionists" are advocating, and many of them don't really know what the Hell they're talking about because many of them have never actually read Darwin's Origin Of The Species. So, most of them are just talking shit.

Darwin would never advocate rape, and he was appalled by slavery. He actually expressed admiration for the primitive tribes he had encountered on his journeys.

Again, I must say . . . if we are going to blame Darwin for Hitler's rise to power, then we must also blame Isaac Newton who's laws of gravity and motion made it possible to more accurately calculate the flight path a projectile or missile to it's target, the inventor of the steam engine which made it possible to build the trains that took the Jews and millions of other people to the death camps, and the Wright brothers who's invention of the airplane made it possible to drop bomb on cities from the air.

And in response to the following . . . . .

My brother-in-law, a member of my church who definitely believes in the creation account in Genesis, is one of the leading radiologists in this country.

Well, I admit that I know very little about radiology. I have read up on how X-ray cameras, CAT Scans, and MIR scans work, but I don't know enough to actually use such devices.

Also, in math, I only know about Algebra, Geometry, and Trigonometry, but never had the opportunity to take a course in Calculus. I wish I had.

In some other topic, Recovering Fan had mentioned that he knows Calculus, so he's got a one-up on me in that department. My hat's off to him! So, I admit he's got a little more smarts than I have when it comes to math because he knows Calculus.

I only know about astronomy, physics, geology, paleontology, and biological evolution, mostly from what I have read on my own from books.

One does not have to know about evolutionary biology to be a good radiologist, or to be a good doctor, a skilled heart surgeon or brain surgeon or a dentist, or and engineer, or a computer programer, or in the field of electronics.

But to be an epidemiologist, one who deals with how viruses and bacteria become resistant to antibiotics, and a pharmacologist, one who deals with the development of new medicines to treat new strains of bacteria, then one must be a good evolutionary biologist.

That's because, viruses and bacterial do evolve to develop a resistance to medications. This is called micro-evolution.

Now, while most Creationists do accept micro-evolution to a certain extent, they reject macro-evolution, which is only a whole lot of micro-evolution over many successive generation of plant and animal species.

To only accept micro-evolution while rejecting macro-evolution, that's like saying, that it's possible to take 10 steps across your room, but not possible to take a hundred steps down the hall, or a thousand steps out the door, or a million steps across country.

Much of medical science, when it comes to developing new vaccines, and when it comes to finding better treatments for AIDS and many other such diseases must take evolutionary biology into account.

To reject evolutionary biology, is to set medical science back, and if the USA decides to reject evolutionary biology, then in other countries over seas where evolutionary biology is supported, they will advance much further in medicine, and perhaps even find a cure for AIDS, and diabetes, and many other genetically inherited disorders, while the USA will fall further and further behind.

OK, I think I've said enough concerning religion and science.

Now, on to other issues . . . . .

Another reason why I haven't been posting for almost a week in this topic is because I have been adding more Playlists to my YouTube channel. I now have 152 Playlists. So, I have been listening to science lectures by Richard Dawkins, and Dr. Eugene Scott, and also lectures by Christopher Hitchens, and favoring their videos to my new Playlists.

Also, I have been watching the 13 video episodes of COSMOS by Carl Sagan.

And I must say, it has been a refreshing break to get away from all the retarded moronic forum posts by Fit Shit, and now, Brigoon has to get into the act!

OK, before getting back on topic again . . . . .

I'm really discouraged by what is going on these days.

While doing some more Google searches on web sites about Carl Sagan, I have come across some forums where they have been dissing Carl Sagan.

I can't believe that so many people these days are so appallingly ignorant!

Well . . . actually, yes . . . I can believe it, because anti-intellectualism seem to be a general trend in the USA now, and it will probably get worse.

OK, this sort of relates to the Pen State scandal, so now . . . getting back on topic again.

I had mentioned in another topic, that many universities and colleges celebrated Carl Sagan Day, some before the 9th of November and some after the 9th of November.

But, Penn State did not celebrate Carl Sagan Day.

NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Many of the so-called students were out in the streets protesting because their favorite football coach got fired because for nine years he had been covering up for the assistant coach who and been molesting children.

And what makes me sick to my stomach, is that many of these students were joking about the victims who were molested. It was all a big joke to them!

They couldn't give a shit about Carl Sagan day. All they cared about was their favorite football coach, their beloved tin god.

Yes, it was back in April 1969 when I was 17 years old when I was beaten and raped by an older man, about 42 years ago, but it still seem like only yesterday.

So, it's not at all surprising, that as mentioned in the above article, that men in their 70s are still having great difficulties trying to cope with the memories they have of having being molested, some when they were much younger, like, only 7 to 10 years old.

One never gets over it!

I just have to wonder, if those so-called students rioting in the streets because their favorite football coach was fired, if it had been some their siblings who were molested . . . . .

. . . . . would they be singing a different song?

My own brother and sister didn't give a flying fuck about me!

They are both doing quite well for themselves.

My brother was in the Army and he now have a veterans pension, and he has a Hell of a lot more money than I have, and he also became a Catholic.

My sister is married to a Mormon, and she's doing much better. She has more money than I have.

Yeah, my brother tried to come after me with a shot gun to stop me from building a telescope because he felt it was a disruption of our family.

But, now since becoming a Catholic, my scum-bag brother believes that his priest has the awesome power to call down the creator of the universe to enter a little round cracker, and every Sunday, he gets to stand in line to eat God!



His priest also has the power to fuck babies!

You know, I would, just out of curiosity, would like to go after my Mormon sister, and beat her with a lead pipe to see if her magic underwear, that all the Mormons wear, will protect her from injuries.



OK, just kidding about that, I'm just being cynical!

Maybe, I too, would have more money if I would start kissing horse shoes and tossing them over my left shoulder.

Oh gee! Am I being cynical again?

[Fit Man]

Quoting Fat Man: Blah blah blah blah blah

By the way, I don't think ALL fat people of pieces of shit. Some of then can be very intelligent people. You, on the other hand, are just a disrespectful little douche with the brain the size of a pea. You THINK you know everything, but you really don't. It's reminiscent to that of a 13 year old who thinks he knows everything. Which makes sense, because you have the maturity of a 13 year old. You also treat one of your very few friends like absolute shit and consistently make fun of his religion, when his religion is probably the only reason why he still tolerates you to begin with. You are nothing but a hypocrite and a dumbass. You are nothing.

[Brigan]

. . . . . Earl kinda put Fat Man on his place. It is yet to be seen If Fat Man learns from this and grow up.

If anybody needs to grow the fuck up, it's you, ya moron!!!

You're in no position to be saying that Fat Baby

[Fit Man]

Question: Why does Fatass always claim intellectual superiority when he clearly has the emotional stability of a 13 year old, is never able to articulate a purely rational argument that doesn't bring his personal bias, and he is not even able to support himself and mooches off hard working taxpayers like me?

I know I've brought this up before,DumbassFatass, but I still want you to thank me for giving you your handouts from my taxes.

And I don't care if it's a "measly" 500 bucks or whatever it is, it is STILL handouts. Guess what? I work 35 hours and week and am also a full time student. A couple weeks ago I got laid off. I COULD have qualified for unemployment. But I don't believe it's morally right to take other people's hard working money for doing NOTHING. Instead, I did something proactive and secured another job. Probably wont be working as much, but it's cool. It's difficult enough being a full time student.

[Fat Man]

Question: Why does Fatass always claim intellectual superiority when he clearly has the emotional stability of a 13 year old, is never able to articulate a purely rational argument that doesn't bring his personal bias, and he is not even able to support himself and mooches off hard working taxpayers like me?

I know I've brought this up before,DumbassFatass, but I still want you to thank me for giving you your handouts from my taxes.

And I don't care if it's a "measly" 500 bucks or whatever it is, it is STILL handouts. Guess what? I work 35 hours and week and am also a full time student. A couple weeks ago I got laid off. I COULD have qualified for unemployment. But I don't believe it's morally right to take other people's hard working money for doing NOTHING. Instead, I did something proactive and secured another job. Probably wont be working as much, but it's cool. It's difficult enough being a full time student.

NO! YOU'RE GUILTY OF TAX FRAUD. YOU SHOULD BE IN A FEDERAL PENITENTIARY!

ALL SPORTS FANS AND ATHLETES ARE GUILTY OF TAX FRAUD BECAUSE YOU ALL STOLE FROM MY PARENTS!

MY PARENTS WERE FACTORY WORKERS WHEN WE LIVED IN AN INDUSTRIAL AREA UP IN NORTHERN MINNESOTA, SO I DID NOT COME FROM A WELFARE FAMILY.

MY PARENTS WERE TAX PAYERS. THEY PAID PROPERTY TAXES ON THE HOUSE WE OWNED AND MY PARENTS PAID SCHOOL TAXES.

BUT, I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO ATTEND SCHOOL BECAUSE I WAS LOUSY AT SPORTS IN PE.

MY PARENTS PAID FOR THE ROPE I WAS NOT ABLE TO CLIMB DUE TO MY CRIPPLED UP LEFT KNEE, AND MY PARENTS PAID THE SALARY OF THE PE COACH WHO HAD ME SUSPENDED FROM SCHOOL.

MY PARENTS PAID FOR THE CLASSROOMS I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO ATTEND, THE DESKS I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO SIT IN, AND THE BOOKS I WAS NOT ALLOWED TO READ.

MY PARENTS PAID FOR THE BASKETBALL THAT WAS USED TO PUNCH ME IN THE STOMACH ALMOST FRACTURING MY RIBS.

MY PARENTS PAID FOR THE SALARY OF THE TEACHER WHO WOULD NOT ALLOW ME TO CHECK ASTRONOMY BOOKS OUT OF THE LIBRARY, THE SAME TEACHER WHO BASHED MY HEAD AGAINST THE BRICK WALL, AND MY PARENTS PAID FOR THE COST OF BUILDING THAT SCHOOL AND THE BRICK WALL, ALL WITH THEIR TAX DOLLARS.

SO, WHAT WAS I SUPPOSE TO DO?

SETTLE FOR A MINIMUM WAGE JOB SCRUBBING TOILETS OR BAGGING GROCERIES FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE?

WHEN I WAS 17 YEARS OLD, I SPENT THREE WEEKS IN THE STATE MENTAL HOSPITAL FROM AN EMOTIONAL AND MENTAL BREAK DOWN, AND IT WAS THERE WHERE I WAS BEATEN AND RAPED BY AN OLDER MAN.

WHEN I CAME OUT I WAS SO FUCKED UP IN THE HEAD I COULDN'T HOLD ONTO A JOB.

OH, BUT YOU'RE PISSED OFF ABOUT MY LITTLE $600 DOLLAR PER MONTH DISABILITY PENSION.

BUT IT'S OK FOR DROOLING MORONS TO MAKE 5 MILLION DOLLARS EVERY YEAR JUST FOR CHASING BALLS AND GET FREE HUMMERS AFTER RAPING OUR WOMEN!

MY HAVING BEEN A RAPE VICTIM MEANS I DON'T HAVE TO WORK FOR UNGRATEFUL DOG FUCKERS LIKE YOU!

INSTEAD, YOU BASTARDS SHOULD BE DOWN ON YOUR KNEES SHINING MY SHOES AND KISSING MY FEET!

YOU MAY ALSO KISS MY FAT ASS!

NO, MORALLY, I SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO GETTING A FREE EDUCATION, HAVING PROFESSIONAL TUTORS COMING TO MY APARTMENT, SETTING UP A BLACKBOARD AND GETTING A FREE EDUCATION AT HOME WHERE I DON'T HAVE TO COMPETE WITH ANY BULLIES ON A CAMPUS!

FUCK YOU!

YOU'RE A SANCTIMONIOUS SCUM-BAG PIECE OF DOG SHIT!

GO SUCK A FOOTBALL PLAYER'S COCK!

GO SUCK A DRUG DEALER'S COCK!

GO SUCK JERRY SANDUSKY'S COCK!

GO SUCK JOE PATERNO'S COCK!

GO SUCK PAT ROBERTSON'S COCK!

DIE AND GO TO HELL AND SUCK JERRY FALWELL'S COCK, AND SUCK DON HASKIN'S COCK, AND SUCK HITLER'S COCK, AND SUCK SATAN'S COCK!

NO, I DON'T HAVE TO WORK BAGGING GROCERIES OR SCRUBBING TOILETS FOR UNGRATEFUL LOW-LIFE SCUM LIKE YOU!

IF WE COULD MEET FACE TO FACE, I WOULD LOVE NOTHING LESS THAN TO SLASH YOUR THROAT WITH A SWITCH-BLADE KNIFE AND LAUGH AS YOU FELL DEAD AT MY FEET BLEEDING TO DEATH!

MORALLY, I HAVE A RIGHT TO KILL SCUM LIKE YOU!

OF COURSE, LEGALLY I CAN'T, BUT I FEEL MORALLY OBLIGATED TO DO SO!

OH, BUT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE MORE RIGHTS THAN I DO, BECAUSE OUR MORALLY CORRUPT SOCIETY GIVES MORE RIGHTS TO ATHLETES AND SPORTS FANS!

OF COURSE, LEGALLY YOU DON'T, YOU JUST THINK YOU DO, BECAUSE OUR LAW MAKERS ARE TOO DAMN CHICKEN SHIT TO ENFORCE THE ASSAULT AND BATTERY LAWS WHEN JOCKS AND SPORTS FANS BREAK THOSE LAWS.

TOO BAD WE CAN NEVER MEET FACE TO FACE.

I WOULD LOVE TO PUT MEAT-HOOKS THROUGH YOUR ANKLES, HANG YOU UP-SIDE-DOWN FROM THE RAFTERS OF A BARN, STRIP YOU NAKED AND SCALD YOU WITH BOILING HOT WATER, AND SLASH YOUR THROAT AND SPLIT YOUR BELLY OPEN AND WATCH THE GUTS FALL OUT.

YEAH, JUST LIKE BUTCHERING A PIG!

YOU, AND ALL SPOTS FANS AND ALL PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES ARE GUILTY OF TAX FRAUD!

I DESERVED TO BE REFUNDED THE TAX MONEY THAT YOU BASTARDS STOLE FROM MY PARENTS!

YOU OWE ME MOTHER FUCKER!

PAY UP!

BUCK UP, AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!

But in the meantime . . . . .

[Fit Man]

I still don't see how I'm guilty of tax fraud. I pay my taxes to pieces of shit like you.

You speak of your PARENTS paying taxes. But do you? Nope, you just take from hard working people such as myself.

And the fact that you want to kill me and torture me just show what a bad person you are. I'm not in the LEAST bit religious, but you need something in your life so you don't actually turn into a murderer.

Besides, if we met face to face you wouldn't stand a chance. You're a fat old man with a bad knee. I'm a college guy in the best shape of my life (although I'm not an athlete). I run marathons and I'm strong. So I have both strength and stamina. You have neither. So fly out to Los Angeles Fat Man and we can meet up if you want. When you get here, tell me what hotel you will be staying at and we can have a little chat if that's necessary. I'm not afraid of a little monkey-man like yourself.

You probably wont show because you're not a real man, you're a coward. Monkey-men like you who go around bullying people are not real men! They are sissy men and wimps, pussy men and pine-apple suckers! So be a real man and not a brain-dead bully!

[Earl]

Aside from the capability of being rude, Fat Man has no physical power to be a bully. He's physically handicapped. He's also suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. He did not receive the treatment he needed in 1967 when he was raped by the inmate in the mental institution. That treatment wasn't given at that time because no one believed that men ever got raped. If he had received treatment, he would be better off today. I could tell you just how severe the trauma was, but I'm not sure Fat Man would appreciate me saying what it is in this forum. I think I understand your feelings about him, Fit Man (although I'm in a position to be fooled, being as I'm not present to evaluate your reactions); but as far as supposedly outrageous people are concerned, there are bigger fish to fry. Either you're genuinely upset with him, or you're just a troll playing with us and looking for trouble. To be honest, I can't tell which you are; so, continue (I guess) ...

[Fat Man]

[RE-EDITED] 12:46 AM Mountain Standard Time, November 21,2011

NOTICE:

This is my last response to Fit Shit because I have put him on ignore by selecting foe on his user name.

I still don't see how I'm guilty of tax fraud. I pay my taxes to pieces of shit like you.

You speak of your PARENTS paying taxes. But do you? Nope, you just take from hard working people such as myself.

And the fact that you want to kill me and torture me just show what a bad person you are. I'm not in the LEAST bit religious, but you need something in your life so you don't actually turn into a murderer.

Besides, if we met face to face you wouldn't stand a chance. You're a fat old man with a bad knee. I'm a college guy in the best shape of my life (although I'm not an athlete). I run marathons and I'm strong. So I have both strength and stamina. You have neither. So fly out to Los Angeles Fat Man and we can meet up if you want. When you get here, tell me what hotel you will be staying at and we can have a little chat if that's necessary. I'm not afraid of a little monkey-man like yourself.

You probably wont show because you're not a real man, you're a coward. Monkey-men like you who go around bullying people are not real men! They are sissy men and wimps, pussy men and pine-apple suckers! So be a real man and not a brain-dead bully!

OK, this is my very last response to you!

After this, I have nothing more to say to you anymore!

Anyway . . . . .

I can't afford to travel!

You were given extra privileges in school because you're an athlete.

So, some of us had to have our right's and privileges taken away to make up for it.

Buy the way . . . . . I do pay taxes.

When I pay the rent on my apartment there is a tax on that. When I pay my phone bill, my Internet access through Yahoo DSL, and my Cable TV bill, there are taxes on that.

And when I buy anything, there are sales taxes!

So, I'm am also a tax payer, and I resent my tax dollars paying for sports arenas!

Also, I don't give a fuck that you were laid off from your job recently!

Hey! Maybe you can get a job cleaning toilets, WITH YOUR TONGUE!!!

Anyway . . . . .

Be happy that I'm only getting a lousy $600 per month.

Because if I had been able to finish my college degree, I would now be getting paid between $80,000 to $100,000 per year for teaching science courses in college!

Now, because I'm only getting $600 dollars per month, that $100,000 dollars per year that I'm not getting, that can go to buy Hummers that are given away for FREE to football players after they had raped our women.

So, I have bought and paid for, at least 20 or 30 Hummers to be given away FREE to rapists!

Also, you have the pleasure of knowing that I was also beaten, bullied, tortured and raped while having my basic rights taken away from me to pay for those Hummers. You see, it wasn't merely enough to deny me a decent education, no, I also had to be bullied, beaten, tortured and raped as well.

Yeah, I'm a human sacrifice upon the alter of sports!

So, I'm your Sports Christ!

All sports fans and athletes should bow down and worship me!

Yeah! God bless America and football!

Now, shove your apple pie up your ass!

Aside from the capability of being rude, Fat Man has no physical power to be a bully. He's physically handicapped. He's also suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. He did not receive the treatment he needed in 1967 when he was raped by the inmate in the mental institution. That treatment wasn't given at that time because no one believed that men ever got raped. I could tell you just how severe the trauma was, but I'm not sure Fat Man would appreciate me saying what it is in this forum. I think I understand your feelings about him, Fit Man (although I'm in a position to be fooled, being as I'm not present to evaluate your reactions); but as far as supposedly outrageous people are concerned, there are bigger fish to fry. Either you're genuinely upset with him, or you're just a troll playing with us and looking for trouble. To be honest, I can't tell which you are; so, continue (I guess) ...

Actually, it was back in 1969 in April of that year when I was in the state hospital for three weeks.

Also, don't worry Earl, I don't mind if you speak freely about the severity of what I had experienced, because I have been open and honest on these forums about what had happened to me.

Does anybody have any idea how hard it is to openly talk about this sort of thing?

Oh! But Fit Shit doesn't give a damn! He actually ignores all of that, because he is more offended and more concerned that there are actually some people living on this planet who don't care for sports.

That's all that matters to him! Everybody must love sports and have respect for athletes because they are stronger, and can run faster and jump higher, and he doesn't give a shit about people who have been beaten, bullied, tortured, and raped, as long as we all love sports!

And he's pissed off if anybody receives a lousy little disability check.

All he cares about is that football players who can't read or write beyond the second grade level are getting their $5 million dollars per year and their free Hummers for chasing a ball. That's all that matters to him!

Kicking an oval-shaped ball over an iron post or putting a spherical ball through a hoop is more important to Fit Shit than human lives!

Yeah, this has gotten way off topic.

This is suppose to be a discussion about the Penn State scandal in which children had been sexually molested by the assistant coach, Sandusky, over a nine year period.

But the first thing Fit Shit does is to come in here and say it's all hype!

He doesn't care that children were sexually molested.

That's probably because he has something to hide. I think I have him pegged. It's obvious, because anybody who shows no sign of caring about the victims of a pedophile, it's because he must be doing the same himself.

I really don't think I'm wrong on this.

It's obvious, Shit Fit must be a pedophile himself!

There are probably dead children buried under his house. He's probably another John Wayne Gacy for all we know.

I can tell by his attitude. He only cares about attacking people who don't like sports, and doesn't give a flying fuck about the victims of a low-life pedophile.

That's because he's one himself, a baby fucking child rapist, who probably has dead children buried under his house.

Yeah! I have him pegged!

Also, I have never committed any crimes in my entire life, except being physically handicapped and not liking sports, which are considered crimes by athletes and sports fans.

Yet, Fit Shit calls me a disgrace to humanity.

Perhaps if I had been a professional football player, then he would have more respect for me, even if I had beaten and raped his sister or daughter, as long as I were a professional football player, he would still have more respect for me.

Yeah, Fit Shit probably got extra privileges in school by sucking the cocks of all the jocks and the coach as well, so he looks up to these rapists and admires them. To him, they're not criminals. No, they can do no wrong. They're his tin gods.

But since I'm physically handicapped, and I don't like sports, then that makes me a criminal, while a football player that rapes is considered a good American citizen.

OK, I got to go up-chuck now!

You know, in the past, we have talked about PE reforms, but sports reforms would actually destroy sports, because if all the coaches and all the players were morally upright people, and there were no more sex and rape scandals, then most of the sports fans would get board, and sports would simply die.

That's because, the fans really get their rocks off knowing that their heroes can rape women and get off with just a slap on the wrist, and sometimes not even that, they get a pat on the back from the coach, their pay doubled, and a brand new Hummer for FREE.

Sports is a conquest! It's a way of keeping humanity and civilization subdued!

That's what keeps sports alive. Who want's people who are morally upright in sports? The fans certainly don't! That's boring!

Yea, sports hath dominion over the land and all the earth! Amen!

No, I really don't wish to kill Fit Shit, because I don't want to dirty my hands on him!

I don't touch dog shit!

But, I would laugh my ass off if somebody out there had done him in, and he would deserve it.

I hope somebody out there kills him! He deserves it!

OK, I have said all I'm going to say to Fit Shit anymore, and I'm now going to put him on ignore status.

As far as I'm concerned, Fit Shit dead now, feeding the worms, and taking a dirt nap, and sucking Hitler's cock down in The Smokey Pokey!

Actually, I don't believe there's a Hell.

That's just a scare tactic used to frighten children, to discourage them from studying science in school, and it's also a big money making gimmick, used by unscrupulous TV preachers like Pat Robertson and all those other fuck-tards we see on the boob tube.

NOTE:

I'm NOT blaming ALL Christians. Only the Fuck-tards we see on TV.

PS.

Earl has suggested to me, during a phone call this evening, that I also put Brigoon on ignore, which I have now done.

[Earl]

The reason why I recommended that Fat Man put Fit Man and Brigan on "Ignore" is because these exchanges have degenrated into nothing more than personal attacks and name-calling on both sides without any discussion of issues. Nothing good will come out of them. (Besides, they're downright depressing.) I see no possibility of any reconciliation or understanding or convincing of one side or the other at this point between Fat Man and either Fit Man or Brigan. No one in these exchanges is ever going to change the mind of the other, either for good or for bad. There aren't even any witty comments in all this flaming to add a little humor. Not to mention the fact that this thread is not supposed to be about the feuds of Fit Man versus Fat Man or Brigan versus Fat Man (or vice versa ). If the new program had allowed me, I would have transferred all of your posts to a separate topic in the "Off-Topic" board. Sheesh! But Fit Man and Brigan can still post all they want. They can even bash Fat Man. He just won't be reading their comments, anymore. Everyone's freedom is speech is preserved. Like I said, I don't see any good ever coming out the current hate fest. I mean peace and goodwill and to all a good night. (Good grief! )