International I Hate Sports Club

I'm starting a new topic since it diverges from a comment Recovering_Fan made in another topic, and I wanted to address it more fully.

Now, I'm posting this with the realization I'm a relative newcomer to this site, and my opinion may not count for much. But hey, it's a forum, right, where opinions can be expressed?

RF made the comment that if jocks were treated better by certain individual(s), there might be more activity in the forums. You may well be correct, RF (and this certainly is not meant as a dig at you, so I hope you won't take it that way), but I don't really want jocks' points of view on here.

My reasoning is this: I came here because I was weary of trying to fit into "sports culture". I wanted to find people who would be supportive of me in this. Is this biased? You bet it is! But...there are *thousands* of sports sites on the web where jocks and and their fans can make their viewpoints known -- this was one of *very few* I found focusing on disliking sports. I could visit any of those other multitudes of websites for the "support sports" view -- but of course, I don't need to, I've been exposed to it on a daily basis almost my whole life. Even if I'm not watching a game -- there's been people at school/work talking about sports almost nonstop; a entire section of my local newspaper devoted to sports, whereas national/international and business news sometimes are lucky to get a single page, and sometimes sports still spills onto the front page; and sports are used to advertise virtually any type of product or service you can think of.

Quite honestly, I already know the arguments they're going to make -- sports build character, sports keep you physically fit (although coincidentally, most people I've known who are very physically fit have little interest in *watching* televised sports), you need sports to build social skills, look at how many athletes are good people who help their communities, and so on and so forth. All these arguments are either flawed or irrelevant (for example, even if every athlete were a perfect angel who did nothing but good, that still wouldn't make a non-fan interested in *watching their sport*), and they've been shredded numerous times on this site, which the "jocks" should have found out, had they bothered to read a little of the forums and letters before jumping in.

Some have talked about how intelligent dialogue is useful if the sports fan comes here to genuinely learn about the opposing view. On this point, I technically agree, but I've had past experiences with other forums (I'm in an atheist forum and childfree-by-choice forum as well) with opponents joining who "only wanted to learn" about us. In virtually *every* case, they ended up a)preaching to us about why were wrong and b) when they saw they we weren't buying it, they resorted to insults, then either left or were kicked off the forum by the admins. So, yes, I'm a bit mistrustful of jocks or fans who come on a "sports suck" site. I mean really -- doesn't the name "Sports Suck" indicate it's not exactly going to be friendly territory for them. What do they expect to find -- a group devoted to talking about how good the Yankees will be this year?

If someone wants to know my opinions on sports and the jock culture, I'll gladly share with them, if they are the rare fan who truly does just want to learn. However, I have no interest in debating with them, as trying to argue someone into liking/disliking something seems pointless.

As I said, I'm still relatively new here, and I may need to just learn to make better use of the "friend/foe" feature. Anyhow, this has just been my $.02.

Hello ChrisOH. Yes, we have had several "jocks" on our forums in the past, but none who are presently contributing to the site on a regular basis. I think you and me might have different opinions on what the word "jock" means. I think you are using it as a general term for a sports player or fan, whereas I tend to use it to describe the most abusive, pushy and unpleasant athletes, the sort who used to pick on various members of this forum when we were in school. I've said several times before "Jocks, eh? They're such idiots"; things along those lines, but I use that term to describe the bullying athletes; the kind of people who our forum is against. Look up posts by these users for examples of jocks who have posted on our forum: Samdaman, Captain America, mikejones and mike_the_pain_train. I believe the last one is a fake, but it's the basic jock archetype which the poster wanted us to believe.

ChrisOH wrote:However, I have no interest in debating with them, as trying to argue someone into liking/disliking something seems pointless.

I don't really think that when sports fans have been posting here, that any of the members have tried to directly push them into disliking sports. Though I have heard the sports fans say, several times, that we should try getting into sports and stuff like that. I don't agree with you that we should stop sports fans posting here, because I do find some of their contributions quite interesting, and we need a bit of perspective from the other side of the argument sometimes to keep the debates alive. If the sports fans are genuinely interested in hearing our point of view and what reasons we have for having this point of view, I don't think they should be refused the right to have a talk. But if they start getting aggressive and start knocking our opinions, and saying things like "DO SPORTS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD", then I would gladly ignore that. People have the right to do with their lives what they want, and that basic human right is something that a few of our less pleasant visitors have a problem understanding.

This is basically my viewpoint on the issue: if a jock or other critic comes on to the forum posting insults and obviously trying to attack and belittle our point of view on the sports issue, saying we're wrong without giving decent evidence to back that up, then I support a similarly unpleasant response back to them. But if a sports fan comes on here, posting in a civil fashion, willing to debate and trying to communicate in an intelligent, mature fashion, then it would only be fair to return the favour. And to be honest, a lot of our pro-sports visitors are like that. Some have been bad, yes, but I think it's important to look at the individual poster and react accordingly. That's why I can't condone a ban on all pro-sports visitors posting here.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

ChrisOH wrote:RF made the comment that if jocks were treated better by certain individual(s), there might be more activity in the forums. You may well be correct, RF (and this certainly is not meant as a dig at you, so I hope you won't take it that way), but I don't really want jocks' points of view on here.

Well, I have no problem reading their comments, but if it sickens you, here's what to do:
(1) Click the "User Control Panel" option in the top right corner of your screen.
(2) Select "Friends & Foes" from the "Options" menu on the left side of the control panel after it appears.
(3) Select "Manage foes" from the sub-menu.
(4) Type the name of the annoying member (jock, fan, "just a jerk", whatever) in the "Add new foes" field in the centre of the screen.
(5) Hit "Submit".

You won't have to read that person's posts ever again after that.

Quite honestly, I already know the arguments they're going to make -- sports build character, sports keep you physically fit (although coincidentally, most people I've known who are very physically fit have little interest in *watching* televised sports), you need sports to build social skills, look at how many athletes are good people who help their communities, and so on and so forth.

Yes, I agree their arguments are tedious at times. Don't forget the one about how "the economy would collapse without sports" (also total crap, BTW).

As I said, I'm still relatively new here, and I may need to just learn to make better use of the "friend/foe" feature.

Oh good, you were aware of the feature? Yes, it comes in very handy at times.

RF

ChrisOH wrote:Now, I'm posting this with the realization I'm a relative newcomer to this site, and my opinion may not count for much. But hey, it's a forum, right, where opinions can be expressed?

Actually, your opinion definitely counts here, since this forum has so few active members. I've noticed in the "Letters" columns that certain visitors have left messages of support for this website, but have not joined the forum; and there have been those who have registered for the forum, but have posted only once. In other words, only a minority of those who appreciate this website become active members of the forum. I'm not complaining; all messages of support are appreciated. I'm just explaining why I appreciate any supporter of this website who is willing to take the time to be an active member of the forum. So, you're definitely encouraged to express all of your opinions that are relevant to sports-related issues.

ChrisOH wrote:Some have talked about how intelligent dialogue is useful if the sports fan comes here to genuinely learn about the opposing view. On this point, I technically agree, but I've had past experiences with other forums (I'm in an atheist forum and childfree-by-choice forum as well) with opponents joining who "only wanted to learn" about us. In virtually *every* case, they ended up a)preaching to us about why were wrong and b) when they saw they we weren't buying it, they resorted to insults, then either left or were kicked off the forum by the admins. So, yes, I'm a bit mistrustful of jocks or fans who come on a "sports suck" site. I mean really -- doesn't the name "Sports Suck" indicate it's not exactly going to be friendly territory for them. What do they expect to find -- a group devoted to talking about how good the Yankees will be this year?

You're not kidding! I've often wondered why some people visit websites they know are likely to offend them. Well, I guess I should take that back. There are two reasons I can think of why such people would visit websites they know are likely to offend them: (1) so they can harass those who support the website, or (2) to try to convert them to their own point of view. By the way, insulting someone after trying to convert him to one's own point of view is quite immature. Don't these people realize how childish they appear?

ChrisOH wrote:My reasoning is this: I came here because I was weary of trying to fit into "sports culture". I wanted to find people who would be supportive of me in this. Is this biased? You bet it is! But...there are *thousands* of sports sites on the web where jocks and and their fans can make their viewpoints known -- this was one of *very few* I found focusing on disliking sports. I could visit any of those other multitudes of websites for the "support sports" view -- but of course, I don't need to, I've been exposed to it on a daily basis almost my whole life. Even if I'm not watching a game -- there's been people at school/work talking about sports almost nonstop; a entire section of my local newspaper devoted to sports, whereas national/international and business news sometimes are lucky to get a single page, and sometimes sports still spills onto the front page; and sports are used to advertise virtually any type of product or service you can think of.

Again, I hear you. I'm amazed at the hysterical reaction of some sports fans over the existence of a single website for those who don't like sports. Considering the fact that, as you say, there are thousands of websites for sports fans to choose from, you would think that they would have an attitude of "Live and let live," "To each his own," or "It doesn't bother me." Intolerance is often a sign of insecurity.

I don't think you need to worry about this website ever being changed. There's no way that it will ever become a website for sports fans.

I have several other comments to make. As a moderator of this website, I want to hold open the possibility of someone from the other side actually understanding our point of view. This is most likely to happen when there actually is a verbal exchange. My online personality has been evolving over a period of months ever since I started posting at this website. The next time an abusive critic joins this website, instead of reacting in kind, I will try to get him to stop being emotional and think about the real reasons why he's upset with this website. Of course, if an abusive critic isn't willing to have a dialogue, after I've given him warning, I'll ban him. Sometimes, though, even these hostile exchanges can be funny, what with the name-calling and all (especially if some of the insults are witty). On the other hand, I want the nice guys on the other side (who, granted, may appear to be few in number) to be able to see that we're okay. I also want visitors who don't have a strong identification with either our side or the side of sports fans to see that we are reasonable. Perhaps I'm naive and too idealistic for my own good.

Finally, even those of us who are active members of this forum and support this website are not a monolithic group. As I've pointed out on previous occasions, even though we're small in number, we're quite a diverse group.

Well, I don't know if my comments were helpful or not. Let me conclude by saying that your input is greatly appreciated; so, please keep posting.

P.S. Hi, recovering_fan. Hey, thanks for telling us about the "friend/foe" feature. I had no idea what that was for. Of course, I was too lazy to go to the trouble to find out. I didn't know we had our own "Ignore" function. Of course, as a moderator I can't afford to use it; otherwise, I wouldn't be able to keep track of troublemakers.

i_like_1981 wrote:This is basically my viewpoint on the issue: if a jock or other critic comes on to the forum posting insults and obviously trying to attack and belittle our point of view on the sports issue, saying we're wrong without giving decent evidence to back that up, then I support a similarly unpleasant response back to them. But if a sports fan comes on here, posting in a civil fashion, willing to debate and trying to communicate in an intelligent, mature fashion, then it would only be fair to return the favour.

I agree with everything there, so the only thing I have to add to this thread is in response to this part of the original post:

ChrisOH wrote:But...there are *thousands* of sports sites on the web where jocks and and their fans can make their viewpoints known -- this was one of *very few* I found focusing on disliking sports. I could visit any of those other multitudes of websites for the "support sports" view -- but of course, I don't need to, I've been exposed to it on a daily basis almost my whole life. Even if I'm not watching a game -- there's been people at school/work talking about sports almost nonstop; a entire section of my local newspaper devoted to sports, whereas national/international and business news sometimes are lucky to get a single page, and sometimes sports still spills onto the front page; and sports are used to advertise virtually any type of product or service you can think of.

I understand that you came to this site for a place to get away from the constant discussion of sports which I assume both you and I find unbearable, and I too am glad to have found a place where people are uninterested in sports where the outcomes of sporting events aren't discussed. However, I think it is good to have members from the opposition, because this forum makes a statement where a certain opinion (which varies greatly even among supporting members of this site) is held by the site, but this opinion is a debatable subject and I enjoy discussions between the people who are uninterested in or completely hate sports and the people who support sports but are civil about the subject. These discussions educate us on the subject, and if we are only seeing the opinions of people who support the statement made by the site, then we could become ignorant and the only side of the argument that we'd be familiar with would be our own. I enjoy it when someone signs up to this site who watches/participates in sports but isn't completely intolerant of non-athletes, but who also wishes to discuss the topic civilly. I believe these people have made many contributions to discussion on this site, and I wish that would continue, although there isn't much opposition on this site at the time.

It's even possible that a while from now, you'll enjoy the occasional civil opposition to this site too. Since I've joined this site, my perspective on sports, among other things, has changed significantly. I think I came across this site while surfing the internet on things related to the nerd culture as well as the anti-sports movement (although I wouldn't really call it a movement, because I believe that term makes it sound like there is a noticeable and significant backing to the cause). I think I found a couple sites on the subject, but this site seemed to be the most active (even though this forum is not very active, it's just that the other sites were basically dead) and well established, so I decided to register for this site. While I was waiting for my registration to be approved, I read a lot of topics and posts in the forum, and at the time, I had nothing wrong with any extreme comments that wished harm on jocks and at the time, I believed that the vast majority of athletes were jocks, the kind of jock i_like_1981 described (although I was at the time, and still am, friends with several athletes who respect the fact that I'm not interested in sports). I didn't necessarily agree with the violent comments targeted towards jocks and I didn't want athletes and sports fans to die, but these comments still didn't disturb me. But now, after several months of participating at this site, I find my views to be a lot more moderate and I don't feel like I hate sports and am not against them, I am simply uninterested in them. I wouldn't say these comments disturb me now, but I'd say they do irritate me for several reasons which I won't go into. But I am still against several things that are involved with sports, and something needs to be changed in the sports culture to end these problems that are related to sports. These issues include topics such as bullying, mandatory sports-based PE (a topic which I have gladly learned a lot about from Earl), and athletes who excused or easily forgiven for their misdeeds by both the legal system and society. I believe all of these things have a strong connection to sports, which is why I still have any opinion on the discussions on this site. Anyway, I guess I've rambled quite a bit and some of my post may be irrelevant and pointless, but the point that I'm trying to make is that while you may dislike athletes/sports fans posting here, in time you may appreciate these members as your opinions develop over your time on this site.

Just to wrap up this discussion, possibly (which would be nice of me to do, since I started it, no? ):

Perhaps I was a bit too general in my disdain for jocks/fans on the forum. My concern was about the view that if certain member(s) were nicer to the sports fans, we'd have more people in the forums. I feared that would lead to a "watering-down" of the commentary on here, which I'd hate to see even if it did bring more people to the forums. I have a very conflicted view of sports right now, and having a place where I can vent and say things I ordinarily wouldn't say is very helpful to me in dealing with some of the sports-related issues in my life.

Thanks, RF, for explaining the friend/foe feature further. Hopefully, it won't become necessary, but....

ChrisOH wrote:Just to wrap up this discussion, possibly (which would be nice of me to do, since I started it, no? ):

Perhaps I was a bit too general in my disdain for jocks/fans on the forum. My concern was about the view that if certain member(s) were nicer to the sports fans, we'd have more people in the forums. I feared that would lead to a "watering-down" of the commentary on here, which I'd hate to see even if it did bring more people to the forums. I have a very conflicted view of sports right now, and having a place where I can vent and say things I ordinarily wouldn't say is very helpful to me in dealing with some of the sports-related issues in my life.

Thanks, RF, for explaining the friend/foe feature further. Hopefully, it won't become necessary, but....

Sorry I didn't speak up before but I've been having problems getting into the forum lately. But anyway, I agree with you. You make a good point and you made it very tactfully. A+

I personally don't have much use for sports fans and aren't really interested in their point of view. Or anything they have to say. I'm pretty familiar with it from my daily interactions. If it was up to me, I'd rename this site whack-a-jock club because apparently "sports suck" isn't getting the point across.

But I am just a member and certainly not the smartest. I yield to the judgment of cooler heads. But I think you make a good point. Crowded and luke warm isn't much better than few and SPICY!

Ah, Ray, there you are! I've been looking for you! I've got some boring forms for you to fill out.

Ray wrote:If it was up to me, I'd rename this site whack-a-jock club because apparently "sports suck" isn't getting the point across.

...If I'm not mistaken, it is up to you -- you're in charge of the website. You can do with it what you please.

Hi, Ray!

We missed you.

Ray wrote:If it was up to me, I'd rename this site whack-a-jock club because apparently "sports suck" isn't getting the point across.

I could be wrong, but I believe that renaming the site "Whack-A-Jock Club" would attract even more abusive posters. Perhaps some might even think that a site with this name merely ridiculed individual professional athletes for not performing up to par or whatever; in other words, even more sports fans would show up. Again, I could be wrong. I'm just throwing out a few thoughts (my two cents' worth, as it were).

Ray wrote:Crowded and luke warm isn't much better than few and SPICY!

I hate to say this, but that is precisely the situation that existed when our beloved nemesis Samdaman was posting his invective and kept returning when attempts were made to ban him until he finally was banished and fled to www.sportingnews.com to whine over there about how terrible we were. (Well, actually, I wasn't here at that time. I would have tried to reason with him. I wonder how that would have turned out. My wife says he wouldn't have listened to me.) Ah, the good old days.

Earl wrote:

Ray wrote:Crowded and luke warm isn't much better than few and SPICY!

I hate to say this, but that is precisely the situation that existed when our beloved nemesis Samdaman was posting his invective and kept returning when attempts were made to ban him until he finally was banished and fled to http://www.sportingnews.com to whine over there about how terrible we were. (Well, actually, I wasn't here at that time. I would have tried to reason with him. I wonder how that would have turned out. My wife says he wouldn't have listened to me.) Ah, the good old days.

I just checked out your link to the Sporting News web site at: http://www.sportingnews.com/

Yeah! It really looks kind of retarded over there!



Ya see what I mean???

Yeah! Fucking retards!!!

Did you check out the threads Samdaman started over there about our website, Fat Man? I could get you the links if you want me to, and you can see the work I did on them last year. I've not been to that site in a while, but then again, what the hell kind of use am I there? There were some amusing threads on "The Smack Room" but generally, my attempts at loitering round with the "other side" proved to be rather fruitless and dull. I suppose that you'd have to be an American sports fan to get the most out of it.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

i_like_1981 wrote:Did you check out the threads Samdaman started over there about our website, Fat Man? I could get you the links if you want me to, and you can see the work I did on them last year. I've not been to that site in a while, but then again, what the hell kind of use am I there? There were some amusing threads on "The Smack Room" but generally, my attempts at loitering round with the "other side" proved to be rather fruitless and dull. I suppose that you'd have to be an American sports fan to get the most out of it.

Best regards,
i_like_1981

I didn't see any link to any kind of forum.

I guess I would have to register first to access their forum pages.

But then, I really don't think I want to get into a sports forum.

I don't care to go slumming.

Hi, Fat Man. The link I posted was simply to the home page of the Sporting News website, not either of the two threads that Samdaman initiated for the purpose of whining about our own.

As I've said before, what is interesting is that even though he urged the other members to come to our website and give us a hard time (urging them to say that he had sent them), we never had a single hostile critic leave a message in the Guestbook, in any of the "Letters" columns, or in the forum saying that Samdaman had sent him. I certainly didn't read most of the replies to his whining, as I knew they would be supportive. (Well, I made that assumption.) If only Samdaman had gone to the 4chan sports board instead, he would have found those who would have been willing to carry out his request to the letter.

I noticed that the last comment in Samdaman's first whining thread was to the effect that without sports many more people would be obese. (How lame can you get?) Well, now, let me see ... We've have plenty of sports for decades, but there still has been a rise in obesity. At least that's what we've been told. Once again, I feel like screaming whenever I hear anyone equate sports with physical fitness. I now wish that I had posted extensively in that whining thread about the best way to encourage sedentary kids to become physically active. I mean, the first step is to REFORM MANDATORY P.E. AND STOP SHOVING SPORTS DOWN THE THROATS OF BOYS AND GIRLS WHO AREN'T INTERESTED IN THEM. (Arrgghh! )

I just went back to that Sporting News web site again.


Notice the similarities?

DA! DA! DA-DA-DA! DA-DA! DA-DA! DA! DA! DA-DA! DA!

Yeah! There is, like, some seriously major retardation going on over there!

Skul wrote:Ah, Ray, there you are! I've been looking for you! I've got some boring forms for you to fill out.

Ray wrote:If it was up to me, I'd rename this site whack-a-jock club because apparently "sports suck" isn't getting the point across.

...If I'm not mistaken, it is up to you -- you're in charge of the website. You can do with it what you please.

nahh... thanks for saying so but this our forum and you've put in a lot more effort than I have.