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Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:50 pm
by Fat Man
Skul wrote:
Fat Man wrote:YEAH! I'M A BITCH! I'M A BIG FAT BITCH!!!
And you've also gotten a warning.

Andy is not over-privileged, he comes from a middle-class family. Like I said, at least he's actually doing something. Are you?

He doesn't have the money or the resources, he has those bikes and he's doing what he can. You want them to have books, you donate them!

We've let you guys get away with a lot on here, such as swearing, etc, but now I'm getting really stressed by all of this!
Good morning Skul.

I'm sorry, but after watching those videos, I'm angry. A couple of weeks ago, I had posted the links to the You Tube videos over at Able 2 Know.

Ever since I had discovered those You Tube videos I have had some rather disturbing dreams when sleeping after having seen those videos. So, I'm also stressed out. I felt really sick after seeing those videos on You Tube.

Those aren't boarding schools, they're concentration camps.

As for me, I'm unable to do anything. I'm on disability myself and just barely able to make it from one month to the next.

There is one thing I can do. I'm going to write a long E-mail to Amnesty International and exposing this country for being just another Fascist regime where handicapped children are being tortured.

I believe that all the sports arenas should be shut down, and many of the coaches, and those in the sports media should be put on trial just like Nazi war criminals were put on trial, and the people running the boarding homes where children are being tortured, they should also be put on tiral, and if they're found guilty in a court of law, then they should be executed.

Ah! Now that would be a beautiful sight to behold! A mass trial of all the perpetrators in the court room all chained together.

But Amnesty International is probably not going to do shit, just like the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties union doesn't do shit anymore because they are too busy defending the NAMBLA pedophiles who would like to see the Age Of Consent laws repealed so that they'll feel free to butt-bang little children.

OK, so Andy is not super rich, but only from a middle class family, so,I guess he's not actually over-privileged. But still, he's had far more opportunities and privileges than I ever had.

Andy has never had to worry about getting suspended from school, or getting his head bashed against brick walls or spending almost a month in a mental hospital and getting beaten and raped. He's never had to worry about things like that happening to him.

But as for me, I was most definitely under-privileged, and often treated like a criminal when I have never committed a crime. But here in the USA, being handicapped and lousy at sports is considered a crime.

When I fell out of the car at the age of 4 and busted my left knee on the pavement, I wish I had never survived the accident.

I wish I had died!

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:32 pm
by Skul
I'll be honest here -- I have no idea how to respond.

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:05 pm
by Fat Man
Skul wrote:I'll be honest here -- I have no idea how to respond.
That's OK, I understand.

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:08 pm
by i_like_1981
Neither do I. This topic has become somewhat dangerous ground. The sports fans are being threatened for things that are really well out of their control - no wonder they've been scared off. There's stuff I'd want to say but I fear I'd take heat should I slip up in some way. I don't wish to sound intolerant but perhaps it is for the best that sports fans stay away from this website if the reception they receive here is going to be brutal and sarcastic. Of course, they hardly expected a nice, warm welcome venturing onto a site called "Sports Suck" to tell the members why they were wrong about their views on sports. Hell, there's no such thing as the "wrong" view. Perceptions of good and bad things vary between all people. There's no way of convincing someone they're "wrong" if that is the way they have lived for many years. People say I am somewhat extreme in my hatred of modern music but that does not mean I will stop. We're just names on a screen to each other here. You can't expect to have your life changed by words on a forum. Debating is good for a forum when there is a decent argument ongoing but it gets a bit boring and predictable when people don't want to listen to what the opponents say. But this is our safe haven, not theirs. Some people don't want others coming onto their territory and reminding them how bad it is over there and why they should move over to "sports world". Let's not forget how persistent, and abusive, some of the site's critics have proved to be. Therefore why should their points be regarded? After all, they like sports which makes them no better than the jocks who make it their mission in life to harass the weak and the less socially-fortunate. LET'S GET THEM! A sports fan would be a fool to just walk onto this ground and think he was entitled to a pleasant welcome just because he may be more polite than some of the dense haters who never did want much of a discussion. Well, of course, people are going to be divided in their views of having sports fans on this website. Let's not forget how we're probably all different to each other in many ways and that hating sports is just one thing that connects us and brings us here. Not every member can be expected to act nice to the "other side" just because he/she may come in peace. Reactions will be varied. There'll be welcoming people, unwelcoming people and people who just stay out of it. Therefore I really don't know where I stand on this decision. Andy was polite, friendly and definitely not a stereotype, but perhaps he expected too much from sports haters by expecting them all to be civil towards him and not attack and disregard his points. Whenever a person enters a forum with the intention of openly displaying disagreement to the members, some of whom will be very rigid in their attitudes and beliefs, they should perhaps learn to take a bit of intense criticism as face facts, we're not all just "nice". It would be nice if everybody could all be friends but that just isn't going to happen. Regardless of their manner on the site, no sports fan shall ever be above the criticism of this site and that is because people interpret their behaviour in different ways. What one person calls "civil" and "intelligent" another may call "cocky" and "condescending". No changing that. Sadly, declaring a clear disagreement with the members in a polite or harsh way is going to result in a fair bit of contempt shown towards your words, like it or not. Andy is more than welcome back on here in my opinion. But perhaps this was not the best place for him to share his charitable undertakings. I respect him for doing that and take it to be a generous, thoughtful gesture to less-fortunate people in another area of the world but a lot of the other members have seen it as one of the cards he has played to show some sort of superiority over us. A bit excessive, but how can you just change someone's attitude completely by sharing it with them? Sports fans of all shapes, sizes and IQs will never receive completely fair and honest treatment on these boards and I can clearly see why. We market ourselves as being a paradise for sports haters and if it is the will of some people to keep it that way and not let any people in who could be seen as "bad influences", I shall have to leave them as I know that I cannot change the way they feel. I cannot change what has happened in their lives, and naturally, bad apples are going to ruin the opinions of the whole bunch on occasion and this is a board concentrating on denouncing the blind hatred and selfishness of those "bad apples". I leave it with each and every member regarding the way they wish to react towards sports fans, as we have all been driven to this by different personal experiences which can have all sorts of bearings on the way we behave towards sports fans on our website.

Oh, and I'm sorry about the single, MASSIVE paragraph. I never was much good with paragraph breaks. Hope you can read through all of that without drifting off to sleep... even the most hardcore readers can be ever so slightly deterred in their reading by one positively huge, seemingly endless block of text!

Best regards,
i_like_1981

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:39 pm
by greencom
Hi Gang,
Personally I don't give a rat's ass if I or anyone on this forum offends, insults or otherwise puts down jocks or sports fans no matter how nice or civilized they seem, they all have a similar mind set. I will show them the same amount of courtesy they show toward others not of their ilk..zilch! It's like saying "he's really not to bad for a NAZI". Go get em Fatman, you've got good reason.

Greencom

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:03 am
by Earl
Fat Man, your heartfelt reaction to the You Tube videos is commendable. You identify with these poor children because of your own teenage trauma.

But you are not being rational. There is absolutely no connection between sports and the abuse of children in such institutions. These children have not been abused because of sports. They were not put there because they were lousy at sports. This man does not go around saying that heâ??s going to teach them the beauty of sports. Sports donâ??t even come into it. These children were put there because they have problems, and this man is an evil man. These children are not abused because theyâ??re in a liberal state like Massachusetts. Theyâ??re not abused because the man has a Jewish name. Theyâ??re not abused because theyâ??re in a northern state thatâ??s not as friendly as some of the other states in the Union. These children are abused because this man is evil, pure and simple; and he needs to be strung up. He has chosen to do evil, and he is the one responsible for the abuse of these children. Sports has nothing to do with it.

I count you as a friend. For that reason Iâ??m very concerned about your well-being. This rage you have is eating you alive. By becoming hysterically enraged, you are not helping anyone. In fact, youâ??re butting your head against a brick wall. You will only hurt yourself in the long run by doing this. You should send an e-mail to Amnesty International or some other organization that would be expected to be sympathetic to the plight of these children, but you must be calm and factual in your presentation. Profanity and violent images will not be effective.

Would you please read my topic in the Off-Topic forum entitled â??a Holocaust survivor who forgave.â? I wrote it straight from my heart, not as a self-righteous jerk who lacks empathy.

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:03 am
by Fat Man
greencom wrote:Hi Gang,
Personally I don't give a rat's ass if I or anyone on this forum offends, insults or otherwise puts down jocks or sports fans no matter how nice or civilized they seem, they all have a similar mind set. I will show them the same amount of courtesy they show toward others not of their ilk..zilch! It's like saying "he's really not to bad for a NAZI". Go get em Fatman, you've got good reason.

Greencom
Thank you very much Greencom.

Yeah. Both Andy and Tony may be very polite, and probably were never bullies. But they both came in here with an authoritarian attitude presuming to be forum moderators. It's like, who died and made them God?

Now, only Skul or Earl have a right to issue warnings to any of us if we get too far out of line, because they are, after all, the board moderators.

But if either Andy or Tony don't like my posting style, then well . . . if they don't like it, they can lump it, and take it on down the road and dump it!

You right! We don't have to be polite to Nazis. I don't care how polite they are. Usually when Fascists sound all nice and polite, it's because they are smooth talking scum!

Oh I'm quite sure some of the Nazis officers at Auschwitz sounded very nice and polite when saying to some of the newly arrived prisoners "welcome ladies and gentlemen, please follow me this way" as they were being led to the death chambers.

Yeah! I admit it! I'm prejudice! I'm prejudice against jocks. When it comes to jocks, and sports fans, I'm a bigot! I'm worse than Archie Bunker when it comes to jocks and sports fans.

It's because most people in sports are of the more authoritarian mindset.

Games like football, or basketball, or hockey, etc. etc. have rigid rules to follow in order to win the game. There is no room for free thought or creativity in sports.

Oh, I'm sure Andy will do well in his nursing career. One can be authoritarian and still be a good nurse or a doctor.

But when I was in school, my main interest was in Astronomy, and anyone with an authoritarian mindset would not make a very good astronomer. If one reads up on the history of Astronomy, you'll read how scientists like Galileo had to go up against the established authorities of their times.

Astronomy has done far more to knock us off our central pedestal and put us in a more humble position. It has shown us we are not the center on the universe, that in the cosmic scheme of things, we are nothing.

In an educational setting, the sciences can only exist where academic and intellectual freedom are encouraged, and art can only exist where creativity is encouraged. But both run counter to what is required in sports.

Therefore, academics and athletics can not coexist together in the same institutional setting, because sports is authoritarian and dose all it can to discourage free thought.

Of course, jocks are free to disregard the laws of the land and they can have their way with our sisters and daughters with impunity.

There is no freedom of thought, so jocks don't think with the big head, but only with the little head!

Therfore, I believe that having both academics and athletics in the same institutional setting is a contradiction.
Earl wrote:Fat Man, your heartfelt reaction to the You Tube videos is commendable. You identify with these poor children because of your own teenage trauma.

But you are not being rational. There is absolutely no connection between sports and the abuse of children in such institutions. These children have not been abused because of sports. They were not put there because they were lousy at sports. This man does not go around saying that heâ??s going to teach them the beauty of sports. Sports donâ??t even come into it. These children were put there because they have problems, and this man is an evil man. These children are not abused because theyâ??re in a liberal state like Massachusetts. Theyâ??re not abused because the man has a Jewish name. Theyâ??re not abused because theyâ??re in a northern state thatâ??s not as friendly as some of the other states in the Union. These children are abused because this man is evil, pure and simple; and he needs to be strung up. He has chosen to do evil, and he is the one responsible for the abuse of these children. Sports has nothing to do with it.

I count you as a friend. For that reason Iâ??m very concerned about your well-being. This rage you have is eating you alive. By becoming hysterically enraged, you are not helping anyone. In fact, youâ??re butting your head against a brick wall. You will only hurt yourself in the long run by doing this. You should send an e-mail to Amnesty International or some other organization that would be expected to be sympathetic to the plight of these children, but you must be calm and factual in your presentation. Profanity and violent images will not be effective.

Would you please read my topic in the Off-Topic forum entitled â??a Holocaust survivor who forgave.â? I wrote it straight from my heart, not as a self-righteous jerk who lacks empathy.
Hello Earl.

You're right. The abuse of these children in the boarding schools is not caused by sports.

But this is something that will never happen to athletes. We don torture athletes with electric shocks. We only torture the disabled with electric shocks while athletes are given all kinds of special privileges.

I'm merely pointing out how we live in a two-tiered society where the athletic elite lives at the top socially and economically while people who are physically or mentally handicapped live at the bottom both socially and economically.

I am showing how, even in our regular schools, students with physical disabilities are more severely punished for any minor indiscretion than the more able bodied students, and how athletes are not even punished at all for their behavior.

This is what is ripping me up inside.

But it is because of sports that I was suspended from school when I was in the 4th grade, and that was because I failed to climb a rope in a gymnasium. The principle of the school gave me one of two choices, (1) to either have my mother pick me up and take me home, or (2) be locked up in a closet over-night and having the authorities come in the morning to take me to the juvenile detention facility in Red Wing Minnesota.

So, yeah, I could have ended up in a kind of boarding school because of sports, the juvenile detention home in Red Wing.

When I was 13 years old, I scored 150 points on a standard IQ test, and I was treated like trash.

Yet, these monkey-boys who's collective IQs are far exceeded by their shoe sizes get all kinds of special privileges and get paid millions of dollars just for chasing balls.

In the USA, sports is held in much higher esteem than science.

If a cure for cancer or diabetes is ever found, it won't be here in the USA, it will be in some other country overseas. Here in the USA, in our high schools, they only teach how to fold paper footballs.

Yeah, in the good ol' USA, Galileo is still under house arrest and Bruno Giordano is still burning at the stake!

No, not in physical actuality since both died in the 1600s, but rather, in the collective mentality of the USA.

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:50 am
by greencom
Fatman and Earl,
What really burns me up is that even a youngster that is perfectly healthy but doesn't have an interest in organized sports is considered abnormal and in need of counseling, that is just plain sick.

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:24 am
by Earl
Fat Man, thanks for reacting to my comments with the right spirit. You know that I'm your friend, and greencom knows that I'm his friend as well.

Greencom, I completely agree with you about this. The opinion that something is terribly wrong with boys who don't like sports is still with us. I'd say that it's criminal. What are these people trying to do? Are they deliberately trying to discourage nonathletic boys from becoming physically active? That's what they did to me when I was a boy. But now I'm vindicated, for today I've become a gym rat. :mrgreen:

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:03 am
by Fat Man
Good evening Earl and Greencom.

Yes, there is nothing wrong with going to a gym for your own personal exercise and training program that is tailor made for the individual needs.

When I was in college back in 1976, I did take a one semester course in weight training pumping iron and I got to where I could leg press 650 pounds which was the entire stack of irons, but I could only bench press 150 pounds. Being of the Endomorphic body type I naturally have more lower-body strength than upper-body strength.

It was the only PE course that I actually liked, because I did not have to compete against anybody else, but only needed to work on my own self improvement and I could work at my own pace.

Also, this PE course was almost like a biology course, and I actually liked my PE instructor, because he was very intellectual. So, we had classroom sessions on human biology and the muscle groups having long scientific sounding Latin names.

In college it's different from high school. You can choose which PE courses you may take. There is Archery, and there is Fencing, a gentleman's sport, or golf. I sucked at golf! Oh well!!! I was the only left-handed student out of 30 other students in my golf class, and the left-handed golf clubs were hard to find because I had to sort through a bunch of clubs that was kept in storage.

Anyway . . .

There is nothing wrong with wanting to become more physically fit, and as we all know, it doesn't have to be done through competitive sports.

Yeah, it's really fuck up that any kid who doesn't like sports is considered "abnormal" and in need of psychological counseling. Sometimes the shrinkos are crazier than the patients!!!

OH! By the way!

Andy did drop by in these forums earlier this afternoon.

His name appeared for about 15 minutes or so at the bottom of the Index Page, but he obviously didn't post anything.

I wonder if he read my latest posts.

OK, I'm merely speculating now . . . . .

. . . . . but maybe after reading about my You Tube links and my forum posts about how mentally and physically disabled students are more severely punished than able-bodied students, and how athletes go unpunished, he probably felt too ashamed to post anything in response.

If so . . . then . . . GOOD!!!

He should feel ashamed, if he has any sense of common human decency that is.

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:53 am
by Skul
-_-

...

*sigh*

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:47 pm
by Fat Man
Skul wrote:-_-

...

*sigh*
Good morning Skul.

Yes, I know.

OK, I admit it, I'm prejudiced.

I do have some mental health issues that I have to deal with.

I'll be calling my therapist Monday. He is a very close friend of mine, almost like an older brother to me. I'll even call him this afternoon when I get home, because I have to go out this morning.

So, I'll be honest here, I am a bit whacked out, and watching those You Tube videos didn't help matters any either.

I'll see you all later.

Bye for now.

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:14 pm
by SPORTS ROCK.
Sergey wrote: My name is racial.
:lol: all names are racial in a way, if u take the time to think about it. in fact, u r the racist one, believing that your name somehow deserves respect whereas no others do.

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:17 pm
by Earl
I get the impression that Sergey is not a racist. He hasnâ??t posted any comments that would indicate that he has racist attitudes or believes that his first name deserves more respect than other names. In one of his very first posts, he did say that some (if not many) of his classmates were calling him â??sir gay.â? Unless Iâ??ve got my facts wrong, Sergey is a Russian immigrant to this country (the United States). Surely he must have experienced (or is still experiencing) considerable stress from adapting to life in this country, or so I would assume. Russian and English are both difficult languages for those to learn whose native tongue is different. Hey, I never learned how to speak Spanish fluently, which is relatively easy to learn! :lol:

Re: Here to have a civilized debate.

Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:57 pm
by Sergey
I am NOT an immigrant. I just so happen to know more than most of the peeps in my classes.