Fat Man Needs to go, play sports, and get some damn exercise

[Fat Man]

Nothing ever change here!

Hello again.

Good evening Sparkle!

Welcome back! It's been quite awhile since the last time you have been here.

Yeah! Nothing has changed here. It's still just the same ol' same ol'!

What did you expect?

That this would go from a sports hating to a sports loving forum?

Quite unlikely!

Anyway . . . . .

Welcome back!

Good to see you again!

[sparkle]

It's more like too much fighting. Thank you.

[Earl]

This particular instance of flaming came to a good end. The fighting took place in other topics as well. You'd have to read all of those posts to get the complete story, but I can tell you in brief: When Fat Man indicated in a post that he was losing sleep over the flaming, Fit Man decided to call it off and had a PM exchange with him. The two of them arrived at an understanding, and Fit Man has left us on his own accord. He wasn't bad at heart, but was projecting anger at Fat Man that arose from another source. Fit Man actually agreed with us on some issues. While Fat Man may disagree with me here, I don't think he qualified as a troll. Our most recent member Buffjock (My wife giggled at his username and rolled her eyes) most definitely was a troll and posted for maybe a single day, and then he was gone. Again, on his own accord.

[Fat Man]

It's more like too much fighting. Thank you.

Well, you can blame a lot of the recent fighting on Fit Man - AKA - Fit Shit who registered to be a member on this forum for the sole purpose of attacking me before knowing all the facts about my situation.

Then he had the guts to say that if I had been allowed to get a decent education, that would have been a poor investment.

Yeah, so I guess society saved a lot of money by my not being allowed to check out Astronomy books from the school library, getting my head bashed against a brick wall, getting my oil paintings destroyed in the art class, and getting beaten and raped by an older man when I was 17 years old.

Yeah! That's how society saved money, because my getting a good education would have been a poor investment, according to Fit Shit!

Oh oh!

Now, you got me started again!

Fit Shit hasn't been around for over a month now, and before he left, he sent me a private message, sort of apologizing. He was in a bad mood because his girl friend left him, and I said that I understood, because I know how that is tuff for us guys.

I won't go into all the details because it was suppose to be private.

But now, the more I think of it . . . . . the more I don't give a shit!

That's because over the past few weeks, I took some time to reflect on this, and it brought back some more painful memories.

Back in the 1970s, my own brother took his anger out on the family, especially on me, because he couldn't pick up a gal and get laid.

Yeah, my dear sweet brother, who once confessed (or bragged) to me during a private on line AOL chat about 5 years ago, that back in 1970 when we were living out at Moon Gate, a residential area outside of Las Cruces New Mexico, that he tried to steal a shot gun from a neighbor and come back to our home to blow me away!!!

When I asked him why, he said that my wanting to build a telescope was disrupting our family.

Yeah, back then, my dear sweet brother was in the high school marching band, and my mother worked her butt off for him altering his marching uniform so it would fit properly, and she bought him an expensive trumpet, so we invested a lot of money in him.

There were times when I needed new shoes or new clothes and we couldn't afford it.

Then one day, I ordered a kit from the Edmund Scientific Co. for a lousy $25 dollars to build an 8 inch Newtonian reflector telescope, and my brother felt that I was disrupting the family because of it. But my mother was happy because I would finally have something for myself.

But my brother tried to come after me with a shot gun! Yeah! My own dear sweet brother wanted to blow me away!!!

And then one day, he took his anger out on the family, especially on me, because he couldn't get laid!

So now, as far as I'm concerned, as for Fit Shit's private apology to me . . . I don't give a flying fuck!!!

I hope Fit Shit falls from a hundred story building, lands on a fire hydrant, cracks his nuts, and walks funny for the rest of his life, and winds up singing soprano in a girl's choir!

And I hope the same happens to my rotten low-life scum-bag of a brother!

NO! I'm not a Christian, so I don't forgive!



Yeah! This says it all as far as I'm concerned!

Uh huh! This is a big cop out to get out of personal responsibility!

I DON'T FORGIVE!

[Earl]

* Earl shakes his head *

Fat Man, Fat Man, Fat Man ...

For the sake of your own mental health, you've got to learn to forgive when someone has apologized to you. When forgiveness is given by the offended to the guilty party, a sort of psychological healing takes place. You don't even have to be religious to see that. Please notice I'm not referring to unconditional forgiveness.

You make this connection between your brother and Fit Man that is irrational. Mere association does not prove anything. Fantasizing about something bad happening to someone may be fun, but it doesn't do much good.

As far as the one-panel cartoon is concerned, the Forum Rules come to mind as possibly being relevant on this occasion.

§2) No insulting of other peoples' race, religion or beliefs

Insulting someone because of their race or religion is not tolerated. If you receive a message containing anything as such, PM a moderator; do not stoop to their level.

My intent is not to impose upon your freedom of speech. You can be scornful of believers, but I will defend my faith. I am a Christian, and I'm going to provide some commentary here. The New Testament does not teach that all that someone guilty of criminal acts (not to mention other sins) has to do in order to be forgiven by God is to simply "accept" Jesus as if speaking such words is like some kind of magic formula, which is what the cartoon seems to be saying. The New Testament teaches that someone must first repent of his sins before God will forgive. Sadly, many deathbed confessions are not genuine. This has been shown time and time again by instances in which someone who thought he was about to die asked God to forgive him but when he survived, went back to his old life of sin. Also, for someone who wasn't already a Christian, he would need to be baptized in water for the forgiveness of his sins, which is something a convicted murderer about to be executed is not able to do. Before he was converted, Saul (later to be known as the apostle Paul) had been a party to persecuting Christians and putting some to death. Yet God forgave him of his sins when he obeyed the gospel and was baptized.

[Fat Man]

* Earl shakes his head *

Fat Man, Fat Man, Fat Man ...

For the sake of your own mental health, you've got to learn to forgive when someone has apologized to you. When forgiveness is given by the offended to the guilty party, a sort of psychological healing takes place. You don't even have to be religious to see that. Please notice I'm not referring to unconditional forgiveness.

You make this connection between your brother and Fit Man that is irrational. Mere association does not prove anything. Fantasizing about something bad happening to someone may be fun, but it doesn't do much good.

As far as the one-panel cartoon is concerned, the Forum Rules come to mind as possibly being relevant on this occasion.

§2) No insulting of other peoples' race, religion or beliefs

Insulting someone because of their race or religion is not tolerated. If you receive a message containing anything as such, PM a moderator; do not stoop to their level.

My intent is not to impose upon your freedom of speech. You can be scornful of believers, but I will defend my faith. I am a Christian, and I'm going to provide some commentary here. The New Testament does not teach that all that someone guilty of criminal acts (not to mention other sins) has to do in order to be forgiven by God is to simply "accept" Jesus as if speaking such words is like some kind of magic formula, which is what the cartoon seems to be saying. The New Testament teaches that someone must first repent of his sins before God will forgive. Sadly, many deathbed confessions are not genuine. This has been shown time and time again by instances in which someone who thought he was about to die asked God to forgive him but when he survived, went back to his old life of sin. Also, for someone who wasn't already a Christian, he would need to be baptized in water for the forgiveness of his sins, which is something a convicted murderer about to be executed is not able to do. Before he was converted, Saul (later to be known as the apostle Paul) had been a party to persecuting Christians and putting some to death. Yet God forgave him of his sins when he obeyed the gospel and was baptized.

Well, I have a question . . .

Are Jews going to Hell since they don't believe in Jesus?

And about this baptism thing . . .

OK, what if a person asks Jesus to forgive him, and he is truthful and sincere, and resolves to the best of his ability to not sin again, but on his way to church, he get killed in a car accident before he gets a chance to be baptized? What then?

A long time ago, when I was a kid, I once asked a similar question to a minister, about dying before getting a chance to be baptized even after accepting Christ, and the minister said that the guy would still go to Hell because he didn't get dunked in water or didn't have water sprinkled on him after asking Christ to forgive him, that all these steps were necessary.

So, if that's the case, a person on death row, no matter how sincere he is in asking Christ to forgive him, is still going to Hell because he is not able to get baptized in prison.

You see, this opens up a lot of questions for debate.

I was raise Christian while growing up, but I would bring up a lot of questions, and I was told either by a minister or by Sunday school teachers, not to ask hypothetical questions.

Yeah! Like, I'm suppose to except everything on authority.

Well . . . . . AUTHORITY BE DAMNED!!!

When I was a kid, I was once told that I was going to Hell because I believe in evolution, and that the earth is not a mere 6000 years old.

So, I guess Safety must have been right then, when he once said that Galileo and Darwin are burning down in Hell.

Yeah! So I guess all the beatings I took in school was for my own good!

I'm unpatriotic, and a fag because I don't like sports.

And I'm going to Hell because I like to study science.

So, I guess I'm going to Hell in a hey wagon!

That was the message that I had been getting while growing up, and the message I'm still getting from right-wing politics.

Sorry, but too many questions are left unanswered.

Also, I really don't believe in an ever burning Hell that goes on for billions, and quadrillions, and quintillions of years, infinite torture for finite sins, as much as I would like to think that someone like Hitler is down in Hell, I just can't really believe in it.

In Judaism, there is no Hell, they believe that those who are utterly evil, like a Hitler, are consigned to oblivion and simply cease to exist.

Hell is a more recent concept derived from many pagan religions.

And speaking of death row . . . . .

I remember back in 1998, a young lady named Karla Faye Tucker was executed here in Texas. But before she died, while she was in prison, she "found Jesus" and Pat Robertson was trying to move heaven and earth to get her death sentence commuted to life in prison. He tried to come to her rescue. But she was still executed anyway, by lethal injection, which is used in the state of Texas. And of course, she was guilty.

OK, I have another hypothetical question . . . . .

Now, let's suppose I were on death row, and I had been wrongly convicted of a murder that I did NOT commit, and I even had several witnesses who came forward saying that I was with them at the time the murder occurred.

No matter how innocent I am, someone like Pat Robertson would not attempt to come to my rescue since I'm not a Christian. So, I guess Jews, or Buddhists, or Hindus, or Muslims, or Wiccans or atheists would just have to go to the gurney! Eh?

Oh! By the way! I have seen photos of the gurney. It's sort of like a standard hospital gurney, but only, it has two arm rests that extend straight out at the sides, and the prisoner's arms are strapped down. It bears a creepy resemblance to a cross!

Anyway . . . . .

In my case, I would have to turn to The Innocence Project, a secular organization for legal help, and they're short of funds because it cost money to have DNA tests done.

Ah! But Governor Rick Perry of Texas, a Christian Fundamentalist by the way, does not believe in science, and he still had an innocent man executed recently because he rejected the scientific forensic evidence that proved him to be innocent.

Also, he probably loves it when they use the gurney because it looks like a cross!

Yeah! Really cute! Eh?

Glory Halleluiah!

Praise the Lord!!!

Amen!

[recovering_fan]

Governor Rick Perry of Texas ... had an innocent man executed recently because he rejected the scientific forensic evidence that proved him to be innocent.

That's pretty horrible.

Was it possible for Obama to grant a pardon ... and if so why didn't he?

[ChrisOH]

Governor Rick Perry of Texas ... had an innocent man executed recently because he rejected the scientific forensic evidence that proved him to be innocent.

That's pretty horrible.

Was it possible for Obama to grant a pardon ... and if so why didn't he?

I always thought that unless it was a federal crime, the governor of the state had the final authority on stays of execution (murder is usually covered under state law, unless it's a federal charge like terrorism or treason, someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Let's avoid a religious discussion here, it has nothing to do with Fit Man.

[n3rdg4sm]

I don't get what all that was posted about religion is
but can we agree that every group of people have members that represent them poorly? I am agnostic (as they are the only group that admit they know nothing, and i like the idea of discussing without forcing my own views on someone)

jesus was a cool dude, or at least in stories. Never met the guy, who knows if he was all that rad IRL, but love the story of Jesus

[Fat Man]

Let's avoid a religious discussion here, it has nothing to do with Fit Man.

Yeah, you're right.

I guess I sort of got off track when I said I don't forgive because I'm not a Christian.

Well, I can forgive unintentional wrongdoing, but when someone does intentional harm, I don't forgive.

Some years back, during a private AOL chat between me and my brother, when we were having one of our stupid arguments, and as I had mentioned before, my brother admitted to me, that back in 1970 he tried to steal a shotgun from a neighbor and come after me.

He offered no apologies, but sounded almost like he was bragging about it. He said that he wanted to blow me away because he felt that my wanting to build an 8 inch Newtonian reflector telescope was being disruptive of our family, while my mother was working her butt for him when he was in the high school band.

So, I can't forgive him! NEVER!

Since my brother converted to being a Catholic, then, if it's absolution that he seeks, then he can just go confess to some pedophile priest or butt-banging bishop, because I don't give absolution.

And when some obnoxious sports fan or jock registers as a new member in these forums for the sole purpose of attacking me, they just might as well be walking into a wounded bear's den.

Well, I'm not in a very good mood right now. The arthritis in my left knee has been acting up. The pain kept me awake last night.

It also serves as a constant reminder of when I was suspended from school because I failed to climb a rope in the gym, due to my crippled left knee.

It mocks me, day and night.

[recovering_fan]

I'm afraid I have to agree with you, Fat Man. When someone does me serious harm, I find that very hard to forgive.

The wicked should be punished, and holding grudges is unavoidable.

I mostly hold grudges against "types" of people, rather than against individuals.

Recently I've been very worried about whether I would start losing my teeth, because I could not afford trips to the dentist. As a result, it's going to be hard for me to forgive the political party responsible for the lowest classes in America losing their teeth due to lack of adequate dental check-ups, because I've known what it was like to fear the loss of my own teeth. Sometimes when I think of that political party I want to scream obscenities until I'm hoarse. I see no reason to forgive a group who causes you that much fear and pain. (And I don't believe in forgiveness regardless whether they transgress through truly evil, sadistic intent or whether it's just a general lack of honesty and accountability in their thought process that causes them to do wrong. Suffering is suffering, after all, and THEY caused me to suffer).

I don't hold grudges at individuals, though. Mostly I harbour resentment towards types of people who think alike and whose common patterns of thinking have resulted in making my life very, very unpleasant.

Christians aren't a group I'm angry at, because I think many of them are well-intentioned and generous. I'm not against any racial or religious group. But when you've looked at enough case studies over the course of your life, people tend to fall into general patterns in terms of their behaviour. That's what I mean by a dislike for certain "groups" of people. I dislike certain personality types, you could say.

Fit Man fell into a certain despicable class of people who are just smart enough to make trouble for those they gain power over. They are simple-minded and do not listen to the other person's arguments in conversation. They all have this stupid idea that they're harder-working or better than everyone else and succeed for that reason. Very, very flat un-nuanced, simplistic thinking characterises this group of people. I would place Buffy in that same group. I suppose you could call it the George F. Babbitt group. Yes, I'm naming the group after a character (George F. Babbitt) in a 1920s novel by Sinclair Lewis who epitomised the type -- a very simple-minded type of conservative who gets his hateful views of the poor from a political party brochure and never thinks to examine the logic behind them.

(There are also liberal versions of George F. Babbitt, I guess. Even though they cause me no harm, I do find them annoying at times, because their thinking is not authentic or thought-out or based on life-experiences and consists of repeating liberal talking points. I could point to a few people at a2k.)

Hmm...I guess my way of looking at the world does allow me to forgive individuals. Individuals who fall into those categories of people I hate can gain my forgiveness by repenting and forsaking their old, stupid belief-system. Depending on how much harm the idiot has caused me or people like me, I may demand he make some restitution from him -- not to me personally, but to people like me -- before I'm ready to forgive him. But I don't expect Fit Man or Buffy will ever change their attitudes. The only thing you can do with clowns like them is continue fighting them. And I DO fight dirty if I think that's what it's going to take to make them shut up.

[Earl]

I deeply regret to say I'm extremely busy right now and will continue to be so for about a week and a half. I've also been sick for about a week.

Recovering_fan, I will respond to your post when I have time. In the meantime, I hope you'll understand.

There's a particular problem here in the forum that I need to address now, a problem to which HugeFan alluded in a post that preceded recovering_fan's post.

Let's avoid a religious discussion here, it has nothing to do with Fit Man.

HugeFan is right; this topic (and this board, for that matter) is not the place for a religious discussion or rant. It's also not the place for a political discussion or rant. Posts that happen to fall into either of those two categories belong in the Off-Topic board. This is not an attempt to discourage anyone from speaking out. This is an effort to keep posts on topic.

We have just lost a new member who got bored with sports threads being derailed in the direction of religion or politics. Dannj, who happens to be a practicing Catholic and also doesn't believe in the theory of evolution, informed me in an e-mail he sent to me yesterday. We can't afford to lose any more members. We desperately need members who are willing to post more than just a few times or only for a single day (not that I don't appreciate all those who have posted messages of support in either this forum or elsewhere at this website). At this point even a chronic troll would be welcome.

Therefore, I have decided from now on that I'm going to delete any post that derails any topic that is not in the Off-Topic board. (I will make an exception for any particular political or religious issue that directly relates to the thread's subject.) Anyone who wants to discuss religion or politics can start a topic or thread in the Off-Topic board. That way, those of us who have no interest in religion or politics can avoid such controversies, especially when the message is a rant designed to insult others who don't happen to agree with the poster. Incidentally, attacking another poster's religion is clearly against the Forum Rules. I believe Skul will back me up on this.

And in keeping with that, I plan on answering Fat Man's assertions in a topic that I shall post in the Off-Topic board. I will not answer them here. But as I said at the beginning of this post, I'm going to be extremely busy for about a week and a half. I shall post when I have time.

[Fat Man]

Good evening Earl:

I'm sorry to hear you're not feeling well tonight, and I hope you get well soon.

Well, I'm not in a very good mood right now.

Earlier, about a couple of hours ago, I was in a very good mood, and very happy mood.

Because, I got a notice in one of my E-mails in a Newsletter, that November 9,2011 is Carl Sagan Day, and I got a link to a web site where I can watch the entire 13 episode of COSMOS.

But, I can't get the videos to play properly. When I tried to go to full screen, the video went blank while the audio still continued.

I don't know, maybe I'm a greedy bastard and I expect too much out of life and I should learn to settle for what I can get, being satisfied with sound only and no picture.

Yeah, I need to be more humble, and not be so greedy by expecting to have BOTH audio AND video. So, I just have to learn to take what I can get in life.

I really wanted so much to be able to watch COSMOS again. I have seen it once, all 13 episodes back in 1980 when it was on PBS, but I guess I'll never will be able to see it again because Windows 7 on my computer sucks. I can't even run Google Earth on Windows 7 as I was able to back when I had Windows XP.

Anyway. . . . .

After seeing the COSMOS episodes on TV, I eventually bought the book COSMOS by Carl Sagan, but I was never able to afford the VCR tapes and back then I couldn't afford a VCR player.

OK, back in 1996, I was still living in Las Cruces New Mexico, and I owned a large 3 bed room mobile home that was 14 by 64 feet. I had a room mate at the time, and we both decided it would be nice to move down to El Paso, because, being a bigger city, it would have more to offer.

I tried to sell the mobile home for about $3,000 dollars, but the young lady who bought it from me could only pay it off in monthly payments of $500 dollars per month. OK, I accepted that, and so, me and my room mate, we packed as much stuff as we could and moved into an apartment we had found here in El Paso.

We couldn't take everything down at once, and would have to make a couple of more trips back up to Las Cruces.

I had three big boxes of books, all kinds of books, science fiction books by Arther C Clark, Isaac Asimov, etc. etc. all kinds of math text books, and science books, and Astronomy books, including COSMOS by Carl Sagan.

I told the young lady that we would be back for the three boxes of books the next day, and if the boxes were in the way, to just take them outside and slide them under the trailer, and we would be back for them.

Well, that night, before we were to return the next day, we had a really big thunder storm and a down pour. The next day when we went back, my room mate dropped me off at the trailer park because he had some business to take care of in town. When I got there, I saw that all my books had been scattered all over the yard and were covered with the curtains she had taken down from the windows to put up her own curtains.

When I asked her why she simply didn't slide the boxes under the trailer, but just dumped the books in the yard, she said that she needed the boxes for something else, and she covered the books with the old curtains to protect them from the rain.

But the curtains were not water proof, and all of my books got soaked by the rain.

ALL MY BOOKS DESTROYED!!!

My book COSMOS by Carl Sagan got destroyed by the down pour!

I didn't have any boxes to put the books in because she had taken the boxes.

I turned around and started walking away from the trailer park, and she hollered that I can't leave until I clear up the yard.

Then, I told her, I better leave, because if I stay here any longer, I'll be arrested for murder and end up spending the rest of my life in prison. (There is no death penalty in New Mexico)

So, I walked away, screaming and cursing.

By the way, she also defaulted on paying what she owed me for the mobile home, and was evicted from the trailer park, so I only received one payment of $500 dollars and the mobile home was towed away because she had abandoned it!

So, I lost $3,000 dollars on the deal!

I'm sorry, but I sincerely believe that morons with low IQs who destroy books, should be exterminated. I'm actually more angry over the loss of all my books than I am over the loss of $3,000 dollars.

No, I believe there should be the death penalty for destroying another persons books!

Society owes me compensation for all the years I have suffered!

Anyway, I'm in a very bad mood.

I can't get the COSMOS videos on the web site to play without locking up or the screen going blank.

I now have a VCR and DVD player, so I guess I'm going to have to save up some money and see if I can order the series of COSMOS from Barns & Nobel on DVD.

But I was looking forward to watching the videos on this web site.
http://www.hulu.com/cosmos

I struggled for over an hour to get the videos to play, but to no avail.

so, I had an emotional breakdown this evening. For over an hour I was cursing and screaming and nearly collapsed on the floor.

I'm really pissed off right now, because I can't have shit!!!

FUCK YOU AMERICA! YOU OWE ME BIG TIME!

I DEMAND COMPENSATION!

But of course, I know that's not going to happen!

I'm an enemy of the state, and according to former President Bush, I am NOT an American citizen, because I'm not a Christian.

Yes, and I'm also a fag and un-American because I don't like sports.

Fuck it! My own dear sweet brother wanted to stop me from building a telescope back in 1970 by stealing a shot gun from a neighbor!

And the Republican party would like to have people like me locked up and put to death because I support science education, and don't believe in Creationist fairy tales.

Also, because I'm poor, and get food stamps (An EBT card) I'm called a scavenging raccoon or a stray dog!

And of course, Governor Rick Perry wants Texas to opt out of Medicaid/Medicare. So, if in the future, if I want any medical treatment, I'll have to tune into The 700 Club on TV, and place my right hand on the TV screen while Pat Robertson offers prayers for healing!

Amen!

[recovering_fan]

@Earl

I'll await your reply.

In the meantime, I want to explain something I said.

When I said "I fight dirty", I was referring to some petty remarks I made to Fit Man and Buffy, like when I called Fit Man out on a logical error he made and when I kept harping on Buffy's misuse of the word "correlate". Aggressive people like those two guys like to make out that it doesn't bother them when someone points out how ignorant they really are, but I know it bothers the hell out of them.

Fit Man forfeited his right to a civil response first when he chose his screen name, and again when he basically appointed himself Fat Man's "life coach" by choosing the title he did for this thread.