is it that bad on schools?

[Weltall]

I mean most people here tell their experiences about how they got bullied when they studied and the most "intense" date quite a bit, I mean it can't possibly be the same on today's schools, I'm not even from USA and I've heard about "Zero Tolerance" policies, that results in expelling bullies. so please I would like to know about it more.

Also, keep the flaming and ranting to other threads.

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

I experienced a fair amount of bullying in middle school, I won't go into detail as I've already explained on this site a few times before, but I am fairly young and it wasn't that long ago. The school never really did anything about it. Not that they were supporting the bullies though, a couple of the school's employees said good job after I slammed one of my bullies into a few lockers in grade eight, but they never did anything to stop it, and never punished anyone.

[Weltall]

I experienced a fair amount of bullying in middle school, I won't go into detail as I've already explained on this site a few times before, but I am fairly young and it wasn't that long ago. The school never really did anything about it. Not that they were supporting the bullies though, a couple of the school's employees said good job after I slammed one of my bullies into a few lockers in grade eight, but they never did anything to stop it, and never punished anyone.

By fair amount you mean, the usual "making fun of" verbal attacks,or pranks like wedgies (<- spelled) or throw in dumpsters. (<- Don't know really just citing pranks I've seen on movies)

[HugeFanOfBadReligion]

Nope, there was a lot of physical attacks, definitely wasn't limited to verbal attacks.

[Earl]

Hi, Weltall. In the United States, the Federal government does not control the schools. Most school policy is determined by the local school board. Of course, the state legislature also has an input. (Remember, 50 States make up the United States.) So, what I'm saying is that different school districts in the United States have different policies. In other words, there's a lot of diversity. I seriously doubt that the majority of schools in the United States have "zero tolerance" policies against bullying. (Incidentally, I don't believe in "zero tolerance" policies of any sort because they don't work very well.) Also, you have to remember that there are quite a few adults who condone bullying in the schools. They believe that bullying is a "rite of passage" or that it builds character, which is utter nonsense. Many school principals and administrators will turn a blind eye to bullying especially when the bullies are "popular" students. Bullying was a problem at Columbine before the 1999 massacre.

[Fat Man]

Hi, Weltall. In the United States, the Federal government does not control the schools. Most school policy is determined by the local school board. Of course, the state legislature also has an input. (Remember, 50 States make up the United States.) So, what I'm saying is that different school districts in the United States have different policies. In other words, there's a lot of diversity. I seriously doubt that the majority of schools in the United States have "zero tolerance" policies against bullying. (Incidentally, I don't believe in "zero tolerance" policies of any sort because they don't work very well.) Also, you have to remember that there are quite a few adults who condone bullying in the schools. They believe that bullying is a "rite of passage" or that it builds character, which is utter nonsense. Many school principals and administrators will turn a blind eye to bullying especially when the bullies are "popular" students. Bullying was a problem at Columbine before the 1999 massacre.

Well, actually . . . . .

Many of our schools do have some zero tolerance policies!

For example:

Zero tolerance for artistic expression

I remember reading about a grade school incident in an art class. Kids were requested by their teacher to draw pictures of what they enjoyed doing most with their parents. One kid drew a picture on himself and his dad out deer hunting while camping in the mountains. The picture depicted a pretty mountainous scene, a tent, a camp fire, and himself standing next to his dad, and they both were carrying rifles and there was a dead deer by their feet. He enjoyed deer hunting with his dad. So, he drew a picture of it.

The kid got into trouble, was given a one week suspension from school! Why? Because he drew some guns in his picture. Can't draw guns anymore.

You know the classic picture that is shown in just about every book on physics, when you come to a chapter on Newtons Law of Gravity. One classic example they show is a cannon on top of a high mountain, and showing the different trajectories depending on the muzzle velocity of cannon balls shot from the big gun, and the higher the muzzle velocity the further the cannon ball goes before it's parabolic path intercepts the earth surface.



Given a high enough muzzle velocity, the cannon ball will orbit the earth because it's path will never intercept the earth surface. It is in free fall forever around and around the earth.

I'm sure we have all seen this classic illustration in high school and college textbooks on physics.

Oh oh! Can't do that now! If a kid were to draw a similar diagram in his notebook while taking notes in a science class, he might get suspended from school, because he drew a gun.

Well, to all the boo hoo cay-baby science hating anti-intellectual bed wetting ignoramuses out there . . . . .

I have a special gun for you!



How's that???


Zero tolerance for literary expression

I read about another incident where a kid got suspended because in his English literature class he wrote a story that involved crime, shooting, and guns. He enjoyed reading detective stories. Sherlock Holmes was one of his favorites, and he also enjoyed reading mostly crime novels, so when the teacher assigned the students to write their own short stories, and were told to write anything that comes to mind, well, this kid wrote a story based on what he liked to read. After that, he got suspended from school for about a week, because, in his story, a gun was used.

So, your not even suppose to write the word "gun" and you can't say gun or draw a GUN.

Oh, by the way! How does the picture tube in your color TV work?

I'm not talking about the new flat screen TVs now, but the older ones that use a large picture tube.

The picture tube has three electron GUNS or color GUNS for red, blue, and green and the three GUNS "shoot" (or rather, emit) a stream of electrons onto a phosphorescent screen, and the electron streams are directed onto the screen by what is called the "roster scanner" which scans from side to side and from bottom to top really fast, about 60 times per second to make the picture, and it's all made possible by three electron GUNS!!! Yeah! Were talking GUNS!!!



So, in any physics book, when you get to electronics, and how TVs work, the term "electron gun" or "color gun" might come up.

Oh! But you can't write the word gun anymore, you can't say gun anymore, and you can't draw a gun, because if you do, you'll get suspended form school for a few days to perhaps a week or so.

Yeah, I know these policies were enacted ever since the Columbine school shootings that occurred back in the late 1990s, but unfortunately, it did nothing to put a stop to bullying, but rather, it only lead to more harassment directed toward the victims of bullying, so in addition to the usual harassment from schoolyard bullies, it lead to increased harassment from adult school administrators.

Zero tolerance for candy and soft drinks

OK, we are all concerned about health. Now I remember when I went to school up in Minnesota. We had a Coke machine in the cafeteria. On special occasions, like during someones birthday, or on Valentines day, in grade school the teachers would bring cupcakes so we each had a cup cake, and during Halloween, the teachers would pass out a little candy.

But now, in the name of fighting the obesity epidemic, cupcakes are a crime.

In some schools, if you bring lunch from home, they inspect your lunch box and any candy or cakes are confiscated and you get sent home with a note to your parents.

When I was in school, my mother would pack my lunch. It was usually two sandwiches, some fruit, and apple and a banana, some grapes, and there were carrot sticks and celery sticks, so I got fruit and vegetables, but there would also be small cake as well.

But now, that's not allowed anymore.

Yeah! Now cupcakes are a crime!

In some schools, kids aren't allowed to have book bags to carry their books, or some schools only allow transparent book bags.

A kid once got suspended for having a small plastic knife and plastic fork in his lunchbox. What was he suppose to do? Eat like an animal???

I could go on and on and on!

And so, we do have zero tolerance for a lot of things.

But sorry, no zero tolerance for bullying!

And it's a damn shame, that it's the jocks that are the popular students while the Nerds and Techno-geeks who study hard in school to get really high grades in science and math, and all their other academic subjects, that they are the unpopular students.

We seriously need a cultural reformation in the USA!

AMERICA NEEDS A WAKE UP CALL!!!

Also, this "rite of passage" is just more bullshit of the ancient superstitious variety!

In primitive jungle tribes, young people must go through a "rite of passage" which may involve self-mutilation or some dangerous feat.

Primitives believe, that they must make a lot of sacrifices to appease or placate the gods, else, if they don't, the gods will get angry and reign down all kinds of plagues and disasters upon them.

So, this idea if "rite of passage" harkens back to our primitive past when we were still living in the jungle. It's based on ancient superstitious beliefs that have no place in a modern technological society.

Therefore, sports fans, jocks, PE coaches, or anybody who condones bullying as a "rite of passage" are no better than superstitious ignorant savages still living in the jungle.

And so . . .

To all the jocks and sports fans who are superstitious ignorant fools . . .

I dedicate this song!

Enjoy!!!

Stevie Wonder - Superstition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64skK_0olU8

Very Superstitious
By Stevie Wonder

Very superstitious, writings on the wall,
Very superstitious, ladders 'bout to fall,
Thirteen month old baby, broke the lookin, glass
Seven years of bad luck, the good things in your past.

When you believe in things that you don't understand,
Then you suffer,
Superstition ain't the way

Very superstitious, wash your face and hands,
Rid me of the problem, do all that you can,
Keep me in a daydream, keep me goin' strong,
You don't wanna save me, sad is my song.

When you believe in things that you don't understand,
Then you suffer,
Superstition ain't the way, yeah, yeah

Very superstitious, nothin' more to say,
Very superstitious, the devils on his way,
Thirteen month old baby, broke the lookin' glass,
Seven years of bad luck, good things in your past

When you believe in things that you don't understand,
Then you suffer, Superstition ain't the way, no, no, no

Those who advocate the primitive concept of "rites of passage" belong in the jungle. They have no business living in homes with running hot and cold water, flush toilets, electricity, heating and air conditioning. They have no business watching TVs or using computers. The have no business driving cars.

Now, to all you sports fans and jocks, and to all who condone bullying as a rite of passage . . . . .

GO LIVE IN A CAVE SOMEWHERE!!!

[recovering_fan]

Also, this "rite of passage" is just more bullshit of the ancient superstitious variety!

In primitive jungle tribes, young people must go through a "rite of passage" which may involve self-mutilation or some dangerous feat.

Primitives believe, that they must make a lot of sacrifices to appease or placate the gods, else, if they don't, the gods will get angry and reign down all kinds of plagues and disasters upon them.

So, this idea if "rite of passage" harkens back to our primitive past when we were still living in the jungle. It's based on ancient superstitious beliefs that have no place in a modern technological society.

I have to disagree with you about the obsolescence of rites of passage. I think our collective psyche requires them of us. I just don't think climbing the rope in gym class needs to be one of them. Perhaps we could (and will) come up with new ones based on what rites of passage were like in more humane primitive societies. We can't change the fact that we're primates, after all. They haven't replaced the brain with a computer quite yet!

[Fat Man]

Also, this "rite of passage" is just more bullshit of the ancient superstitious variety!

In primitive jungle tribes, young people must go through a "rite of passage" which may involve self-mutilation or some dangerous feat.

Primitives believe, that they must make a lot of sacrifices to appease or placate the gods, else, if they don't, the gods will get angry and reign down all kinds of plagues and disasters upon them.

So, this idea if "rite of passage" harkens back to our primitive past when we were still living in the jungle. It's based on ancient superstitious beliefs that have no place in a modern technological society.

I have to disagree with you about the obsolescence of rites of passage. I think our collective psyche requires them of us. I just don't think climbing the rope in gym class needs to be one of them. Perhaps we could (and will) come up with new ones based on what rites of passage were like in more humane primitive societies. We can't change the fact that we're primates, after all. They haven't replaced the brain with a computer quite yet!

I think the Jewish culture has the right idea for a "rite of passage".

Now, what I'm suggesting for American culture doesn't have to be religious, because we have so many denominations, so if we're going to make this a cultural thing, it has to be religiously neutral.

In Judaism a young man goes through a rite of passage called the Bar Mitzvah when he is 13 years old. In Reform Judaism they added the Bat Mitzvah for girls.

What this involves is that their kids must study hard for it. The learn and study Hebrew so the they can properly read the Torah out loud before the congregation.

But not only that, these kid must study hard in school and make good passing grades in all their other academic subjects.

When 13 year old boy or girl goes through Bar Mitzvah or Bat Mitzvah, that is when he goes from being a boy to a man or going from being a girl to a lady.

As you can see, the Jewish culture places a very high emphases on academic achievement. So, we can learn a lot from the Jews.

But unfortunately in our white Anglo Saxon (Suxon) culture (well, blacks and Hispanics are just as guilty) we place an over emphases on sports and anybody who doesn't like sports gets called a "fag" and a kid who likes to read a lot of books is looked upon as being a "sissy" while if you are good at sports then you're a real man, and all that bullshit.

Now in the Jewish culture, a young man who studies hard and achieves academically, he wears the mantel of masculinity.

But if some guy only goofs off in school, refuses to study, and only cares about sports, well . . . . . in the Jewish culture he would be considered a fool and still just a boy!

And so, to all you moronic redneck sports fans and jocks out there out there, I say the following . . .

HEY ALL YOU SPORTS FANS AND ALL YOU JOCKS!!!

YOU'RE ALL FOOLS AND YOU'RE STILL JUST A BOY!

YA GOT THAT???

BOY!!!

OK, I know some Jews who like sports, but they do not make a great big deal out of it. In the Jewish culture, all things are put in their proper perspective. To them, sports is OK, but it's not the most important thing. Also, not all things are equally important. Some things are more important that other things, like achieving academically is more important than sports. Raising a family, being a good father or mother, educating your children, being a good person who is considerate of others, are more important than sports, far more important. Sports is just an incidental little fun sort of thing, which is fine, but it's not the most important.

But unfortunately, here in the USA, we place so damn much emphases on sports, as if it were the most important thing, and we even sacrifice for sports. We have trashed our schools for sports because the quality of education as been in decline for decades. And we even trash human lives for sports because going through bullying is considered a "rite of passage" just like in primitive jungle tribes where the "rite of passage" might involve having pain inflected on you and self-mutilation and whatever.

In our American culture, when a kid turns 13, his 13th birthday is no different than all the others. He just gets a few toys and some cake and ice cream. He merely goes from being an adolescent to a teenager, and that's it. Otherwise, there is nothing special about one's 13th birthday.

In fact, there is nothing special about life at all. It's all about kicking back on a Sunday afternoon, watching football on TV and getting drunk, the same ol' bullshit year after year through out one's life. Most Americans today are just mindless sheep and cattle.



Our lives mean nothing. Scoring that touchdown or getting that ball through the hoop, that's all that seems to matter now.

Well, anyway . . . . .

Getting back to the rite of passage . . . . .

We need to take a page out of Judaism and have a cultural reformation.

We seriously need, not a cultural revolution, because revolutions usually lead to violence, but rather, a cultural reformation of sorts.

I mean, like, seriously. The USA is all fucked up! All my life I feel as though I got off the wrong train in the wrong town, or something.

Anyway . . .

I would suggest, a non-religious and secular equivalent of a Bar Mitzvah for boys and a Bat Mitvah for girls.

But since Mitzvah is a Hebrew word, then we could just call it something else.

When a kid turns 13, the 13th birthday should be something special, with a special secular non-religious ceremony or ritual of sorts to celebrate a boy becoming a man and a girl becoming a lady.

But is should be something that requires studying, and celebrates academic achievement.

Then, kids who study in school, and achieve academically, or at least make passing grades, then when they become 13 years old, they will be considered as going from being boys and girls to becoming young men and ladies.

Those who goof off in school, refuse to study, and are just bullies and thugs, they will be regarded as infantile childish fools!!!

Now, that could be our rite of passage, one appropriate for a modern technological society.

It takes a Hell of a lot more than just chasing a ball to be a man.

A dog can chase a ball.

[recovering_fan]

But is should be something that requires studying, and celebrates academic achievement.

Then, kids who study in school, and achieve academically, or at least make passing grades, then when they become 13 years old, they will be considered as going from being boys and girls to becoming young men and ladies

...

It takes a Hell of a lot more than just chasing a ball to be a man.

A dog can chase a ball.

There's something to that I guess, but to me that reeks of "tracking." I don't like the idea of placing people in technical schools when they might turn out to be "late bloomers" academically. Think about the Jake Gyllenhal character in October Skies, and you'll see my point.

My idea of a rite of passage would be sort of a choose-your-adventure rite of passage. If you were a so-so athlete (but not dead in the water), your rite might consist of joining the cross-country team and constantly taking lip from people who were academically a lot dumber than you, but who ran faster. On the other hand, if you were simply not cut out for sports, then you would have the option not to participate in that particular "rite." Instead, if you were a shy kid who wanted to become less shy you might join the speech or debate team, or drama. On the other hand if you were pathologically shy, or had a severe speech impediment, you could choose not to participate in that particular "rite." Then again, for someone who had always struggled academically, perhaps because of some learning difficulty, the science fair might be his "rite" of choice.

It could vary. I see no reason why it has to be sports, but sports could work for some people.

In my case, I joined the soccer team Freshman year, but I dropped out Sophomore year because of hazing. I wish I had stuck with it. Maybe the rite of passage thing is as simple as making the kid stick with the activity of his original choosing, in order to teach him resolve? I used to drop out of a lot of (non-academic) things in high school. It foreshadowed later (academic) trouble in college.

EDIT -- I should add that the "hazing" I took was by no means real bullying. It was something I should have been able to put up with.

[Fat Man]

There's something to that I guess, but to me that reeks of "tracking." I don't like the idea of placing people in technical schools when they might turn out to be "late bloomers" academically. Think about the Jake Gyllenhal character in October Skies, and you'll see my point.

My idea of a rite of passage would be sort of a choose-your-adventure rite of passage. If you were a so-so athlete (but not dead in the water), your rite might consist of joining the cross-country team and constantly taking lip from people who were academically a lot dumber than you, but who ran faster. On the other hand, if you were simply not cut out for sports, then you would have the option not to participate in that particular "rite." Instead, if you were a shy kid who wanted to become less shy you might join the speech or debate team, or drama. On the other hand if you were pathologically shy, or had a severe speech impediment, you could choose not to participate in that particular "rite." Then again, for someone who had always struggled academically, perhaps because of some learning difficulty, the science fair might be his "rite" of choice.

It could vary. I see no reason why it has to be sports, but sports could work for some people.

In my case, I joined the soccer team Freshman year, but I dropped out Sophomore year because of hazing. I wish I had stuck with it. Maybe the rite of passage thing is as simple as making the kid stick with the activity of his original choosing, in order to teach him resolve? I used to drop out of a lot of (non-academic) things in high school. It foreshadowed later (academic) trouble in college.

Those are actually excellent suggestions.

Yeah, choosing your rite of passage.

To all those moronic redneck sports fans and jocks who call nerds and techno-geeks "fags" or call anyone who prefers academics over athletics "sissies" well . . . all I have to say is that . . . science is not sissy stuff!!!

Here is my suggestions for a right of passage to students who love science.

Astronomy: Imagine working in an observatory or going out in a wide open field with a telescope late at night. The winter constellations are my favorite. But it can get fairly cold during the long winter nights. Having a group of young people gathered together out in an open field with their telescopes or binoculars to observe the stars and planets, and having to endure a long cold night, that could be a rite of passage.

Paleontology: That often involves going out looking for fossils, not just examining them in a lab, but going out to look for them. Imagine a group of young people going out into the desert or hiking up in the mountains with their equipment. You'll need a backpack, canteens of water and food, proper hiking boots, and your tools. Hiking up in the mountains or out in a desert region would require walking for a few miles or so, and climbing rocks to search for fossils, that can be hard work, and certainly not "sissy" stuff. Such an adventure could be a rite of passage.

These are just a couple of examples.

Archaeology and geology would involve pretty much the same stuff as paleontology.

Biology: Imagine a group of young people hiking in the woods to collect live specimens such as insects, or reptiles, etc. etc. That could involve miles of hiking, so that would be another rite of passage.

So, for young people who love science, it should involve more then just sitting around reading a bunch of books on the various subjects, but rather, in addition to reading science, it should also involve doing science. Another words, going out and getting your hands dirty.

You see, this is what I can't stand about the so-called "Creation Scientists" who are not really scientists at all. I'm referring to these douche-bags like Ray Comfort (the banana man), Kirk Cameron, Henry M Morris, and Kent Hovind (currently doing 10 years in the slammer for tax fraud) and the so-called Discovery Institute who filed multiple false DMCA claims against educational YouTube channels on evolution in and attempt to shut them down.

They are NOT true scientists but are merely just a bunch of religious fundamentalist who just sit around in their comfortable air-conditioned church offices, just reading their Bibles, and coming up with their own retarded (theories?) and writing their dumb books on Creationism.

Much of the stuff they write is a pack of lies! But, they're are making millions of dollars fleecing their flocks of moronic sheep in their congregations.

Yet, the real scientists, the ones who are out working the field, experimenting and testing, and out exploring, busting their humps and getting their hands dirty, they don't even make 1/10th the money that these religious phonies are making!

Of course, professional football players are also out busting their humps, and their heads, which is why they don't have any brains!

As far as I'm concerned, there is no difference between sports and religion. They're both over paid for doing nothing but bullshit!

The only difference is, sports is made up of illiterate, or semi-literate morons who can just barely read at the second grade level, while religion is made up of phonies who can read and write at college level, but what they write and publish is just pure unadulterated bull-crap!!!

And they both make too much money.